[andy popp]

Sadly too true.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Fine effort, on a nice bit of climbing.

Great vid of Charlie on it too.

I liked the sound of the flash, but I'd never include abbing, checking gear, holds etc as a flash. (ed. because uncertainty surrounding the gear/holds is integral to the "trad" status. The description "with abseil inspection" used to work quite well, but sounded too close to cheating to remain fashionable - especially if instead you get to use "flash" and not have to disclose it..)

This is difficult, and I don't want to cause offence, but in that sense, no, I probably wouldn't call it "significant" as such.

But this is the problem with any term that has a limit, people use it to make something sound significant, when the lower end isn't. In my opinion, it's rather like applying for a TUE.

Franco, I'm not saying this to downplay your own effort, fine as it is, but we're talking about tactics which were once considered questionable - even when doing new routes.

What does "significant" mean? The anecdote of your ascent is important, and in that sense, I think it's newsworthy. It provides important information about where we're at on harder trad. If this was a magazine with a news column, it would be described. There's not enough of this sort of thing reported.

Gives others (not me  ) something to go at.

Thanks for sharing.

[gme]

Sounds like Francos go at the harder route in a similar style hasn't gone to plan although amazingly he hasn't broken anything.
Wont be climbing for a bit though. Its all on his Instagram feed but i dont know/cant be bothered to learn how to link it here.

[Will Hunt]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhJzZjAnJV5/?hl=en

Most of @climbermacleod 's routes always seemed to be impossibly steep and intimidating. In 2010 news spread of two new routes he had climbed that looked very different: Apophenia (E8 7a) and Die By The Drop (E10 7a). Both proper slab climbs on a beautiful piece of rock west of Glenfinnan. At the time, Macleod reckoned Die By The Drop was harder than the other hard slabs in the UK - most notably The Indian Face.
A lot of my climbing at the moment is at that 10m mark, with poor gear that takes just a little of the sting out of the fall. In other words, just like these two climbs. I hadn't climbed for about 6 weeks due to a finger niggle, but I was feeling fresh, bendy and ready for Scotland. I think when you are in the right place mentally, the physical shape you're in matters a lot less.
I managed to flash Apophenia (now given E7 6c), but the scalp I was really after was Die By The Drop - because it looked great, but let's face it, most of all because it is hard. I'd had a good look at the RP that protects the crux and whilst it's a small one, I reckoned it would take a good bit of force out of a fall.
The plan for the belay was to give a good load of slack on the RPs so that I'd get a baby-bouncer a metre or so off the deck. If the gear then ripped, I'd land gently on the pad, the RPs having taken out most of the force. So off I went, on the flash and about to encounter the hardest slab moves of Dave Macleod's career. "This is it. It doesn't get any better than this", I thought. Such an amazing experience. So liberating. Into the crux, I totally forgot what Macleod's beta even was. I grabbed a great lefthand crimp, already feeling way above the good RP, feet up on rubbish dishes, gaston, another gaston, ready for the crux pop.. I'm off.. The plan for the belay didn't work and I hit the ledge just above the ground on both of my feet, destroying both ankles. Instant pain. damn. Well, at least for that brief moment, I was right there. A bit of an epic crawling out with two knackered ankles and now on crutches, but I'll be back, with some new beta and belay tactics.

Perhaps the UKB cognoscenti are impressed with his commitment now?

[SA Chris]

Following in DMac's footsteps in more ways than one..

[DAVETHOMAS90]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhJzZjAnJV5/?hl=en

Most of @climbermacleod 's routes always seemed to be impossibly steep and intimidating. In 2010 news spread of two new routes he had climbed that looked very different: Apophenia (E8 7a) and Die By The Drop (E10 7a). Both proper slab climbs on a beautiful piece of rock west of Glenfinnan. At the time, Macleod reckoned Die By The Drop was harder than the other hard slabs in the UK - most notably The Indian Face.
A lot of my climbing at the moment is at that 10m mark, with poor gear that takes just a little of the sting out of the fall. In other words, just like these two climbs. I hadn't climbed for about 6 weeks due to a finger niggle, but I was feeling fresh, bendy and ready for Scotland. I think when you are in the right place mentally, the physical shape you're in matters a lot less.
I managed to flash Apophenia (now given E7 6c), but the scalp I was really after was Die By The Drop - because it looked great, but let's face it, most of all because it is hard. I'd had a good look at the RP that protects the crux and whilst it's a small one, I reckoned it would take a good bit of force out of a fall.
The plan for the belay was to give a good load of slack on the RPs so that I'd get a baby-bouncer a metre or so off the deck. If the gear then ripped, I'd land gently on the pad, the RPs having taken out most of the force. So off I went, on the flash and about to encounter the hardest slab moves of Dave Macleod's career. "This is it. It doesn't get any better than this", I thought. Such an amazing experience. So liberating. Into the crux, I totally forgot what Macleod's beta even was. I grabbed a great lefthand crimp, already feeling way above the good RP, feet up on rubbish dishes, gaston, another gaston, ready for the crux pop.. I'm off.. The plan for the belay didn't work and I hit the ledge just above the ground on both of my feet, destroying both ankles. Instant pain. damn. Well, at least for that brief moment, I was right there. A bit of an epic crawling out with two knackered ankles and now on crutches, but I'll be back, with some new beta and belay tactics.

Perhaps the UKB cognoscenti are impressed with his commitment now?

From my point of view Will, there's no doubting of commitment.

I think the questions were over what constitutes "significant", and on what basis.

There are many ascents which are significant, in that they're newsworthy. They may not be "right up there", but still hard and uncommon.

Information vs disinformation. Trying to address that, rather than some spurious argument to the man is perhaps where we're at.

Personally, I'd like to see more information and news. It helps us all understand what the playing field is, rather than who has the right to be on it or not.

Franco is clearly committed, and a great climber. 

I hope you heal well Franco! Just read the other account.

(ed. I still find the use of the word "flash" especially misleading. "Flash after top rope inspection" puts the ascent in its proper context, in my view.)

[Luke Owens]

Couldn't see this posted on here but Leo Skinner has repeated "Evil Sideways" 8A+ at Dinas Rock.

Impressive aged 14!

[SA Chris]

Has there been any hard grit repeats this winter? Big FAs? Or does anything E8 or below just not get reported anymore?

[T_B]

Ill Communication

[SA Chris]

What grade does it get?

[T_B]

Freudian slip. It's called Ill Behaviour and the crux is very highball. Not graded by someone who has flashed 8B+.

[Wil]

Information vs disinformation. Trying to address that, rather than some spurious argument to the man is perhaps where we're at.

I think you're talking about "significance" here, but it works for the flashing debate too.

To me it seems sensible for flashing to be considered as an imperfect onsight. I.e. you have some information but go ground up.

James Pearson's attempted flash of Muy Caliente seemed to take the concept to extremes, memorising moves from a video and belaying his wife on a toprope. I was impressed that he went for it, I hadn't considered that he might have abbed it too (did he?)

All in I guess these definitions usually come down to 2 things: ranking an ascent on a scale of impressiveness and describing the commitment or excitement.

(Good effort Franco either way, I hope you're made of rubber)

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Information vs disinformation. Trying to address that, rather than some spurious argument to the man is perhaps where we're at.

I think you're talking about "significance" here, but it works for the flashing debate too.

To me it seems sensible for flashing to be considered as an imperfect onsight. I.e. you have some information but go ground up.

..

All in I guess these definitions usually come down to 2 things: ranking an ascent on a scale of impressiveness and describing the commitment or excitement.

(Good effort Franco either way, I hope you're made of rubber)

Will, I agree with your comment about "imperfect onsight, ground up" - which on a trad route, is how I've always read it, i.e. not abbing the line to check holds, gear etc.

I think that people increasingly take the extreme of the "sport flash" to trad - anything but weighting the holds. It doesn't work.

"Flash" is too broad a brush. Putting any ideas of "ranking" aside, not "ground up" - as with Franco's ascent/attempt - is the more important detail.

I think that more exciting news about happenings on trad would be a great thing, so we can take inspiration from efforts like Franco's. .. and clip some bolts instead! 

I won't be adding anything more to this debate here. However, I'd read the full account of F's attempt at Die by the Drop after my post, so wanted to post to properly wish him well. Unfortunately he clearly isn't rubber. I hope his ankles aren't too smashed up.

Franco, I don't know you, but hope you make a decent recovery. 

[Footwork]

Dave Fitzgerald has climbed Bügeleisen (8B+) and Big Paw (8B+/C) in the last couple of weeks. Strong lad

[ferret]

Bügeleisen = Life tick

[galpinos]

Mark Rankine (Mark20 of this parish  believe?) has "made the second ascent of Andy Popp's technical masterpiece Time Regained at Helsby, E8 6c"

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/time_regained_helsby_second_ascent-682718

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Mark Rankine (Mark20 of this parish  believe?) has "made the second ascent of Andy Popp's technical masterpiece Time Regained at Helsby, E8 6c"

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/time_regained_helsby_second_ascent-682718

Nice work there Mark. The route sounds great too. Very Connoisseurish..
 

[fatneck]

Any sign of the video yet?

[mark20]

Thanks all. The video may take some time as I've got quite a lot of footage now so I'm going to do another Some Climbers style 'esoteric gritstone/sandstone' headpoint vid

[davej]

Mark Rankine (Mark20 of this parish  believe?) has "made the second ascent of Andy Popp's technical masterpiece Time Regained at Helsby, E8 6c"

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/time_regained_helsby_second_ascent-682718

Outstanding first Ascent by Andy and superb repeat. I remember top roping this about 1986 mega serious and snappy near the top.

[SA Chris]

Thanks all. The video may take some time as I've got quite a lot of footage now so I'm going to do another Some Climbers style 'esoteric gritstone/sandstone' headpoint vid

Now this I'm keen to see. Great effort on the route.

[Will Hunt]

Mark Rankine repeated Yuppie's Arete at Helsby yesterday. 2nd ascent I think?

[andy popp]

Mark Rankine repeated Yuppie's Arete at Helsby yesterday. 2nd ascent I think?

Very cool! Yes, I'm sure that must be the second ascent.

[Doylo]

Rainshadow for Ryan Pasquill.

[shark]

Rainshadow for Ryan Pasquill.