[chudders1]

i am really worried now and may have to take all my UKC log book entries offline incase people start to doubt the validity of my ascents of some of the classic V1's and V2's I have done over the years . I mean is the right hand hold on Baby Slab actually in if I do the left hand version. didn't have cameras back in the day and don't want all this grief !!! also its a sad state of affairs when the undoubtedly strong youth have to turn on each other in the quest for fame and fortune. !!!!!! I have been privileged to see some strong lads climb and have found them all to be very pleasant. please don't turn on each other and turn my sport into a media battle !! climb hard and climb for fun !!!

[Bonjoy]

  You haven’t actually read this thread have you chudders1?

[SA Chris]

Way to misunderstand the concept of "context".

[chudders1]

You haven’t actually read this thread have you chudders1?
[/

hell no !! 246 pages . got stuff to climb rather than spend my time talking shit on here . just flicked through the odd page - sorry if not doing my research doesn't allow me an opinion or humerous comment !! :-)

[dave]

Doing no research doesn't preclude you from having an opinion, just means nobody is going to pay any intention to that opinion.

Basically imagine you're the education secretary, its like that.

[chudders1]

so now we sink into personal insults as I have been given karma as and I quote "tool" and"not the sharpest tool in the box " .I was always told when you resort to personal insults you have lost the argument !! anyway I  thought climbers were socialable people,obviously I was wrong !! so you are welcome to your ukb forums ,I am off to crush some V3's .

[Will Hunt]

As for Will Hunt's comment - He has no need to prove anything any more than I do when I do new probs, because we are both operating below the relevant significance level. If he doesn't like filming he should stop doing it  . The fact he continues is proof that he gets enough value from the exercise to outweigh the mild pain in the arse entailed.

For me it is a pain in the arse, as the only bit of tech I have that produces a decent quality picture is my phone - which has all the constraints I mentioned before. Obviously for easy stuff it is not such a pain in the arse because it is easy to secure a repeat for the camera. The principle motivation for having some sort of media for each FA is because the chance of something being repeated without a photo/video is just ever so slightly higher than 0. People operating in the 7s just generally aren't bothered about going and finding and repeating recently developed problems.

To reiterate. I am not saying that those under scrutiny should not have to provide any evidence. What I am against is that EVERY significant ascent must be videod or witnessed by 12 peers of good standing with no conflicts of interest - for the reason that I believe that such a requirement can detract from the enjoyment of climbing. I don't think that being believed about what you've done should be the sole preserve of people who enjoy filming themselves/only ever go to the crag with a huge crew of trustworthy (this in itself seems like a hard criteria to satisfy) hangers-on.

[webbo]

so now we sink into personal insults as I have been given karma as and I quote "tool" and"not the sharpest tool in the box " .I was always told when you resort to personal insults you have lost the argument !! anyway I  thought climbers were socialable people,obviously I was wrong !! so you are welcome to your ukb forums ,I am off to crush some V3's .

Bye then.

[petejh]

You haven’t actually read this thread have you chudders1?

hell no !! 246 pages . got stuff to climb rather than spend my time talking shit on here . just flicked through the odd page - sorry if not doing my research doesn't allow me an opinion or humerous comment !! :-)

You'll find most of us have jobs or research/study we're avoiding by talking shit on here.

And Will - I doubt anyone disagrees with you. No-one expects the spanish inquistion every ascent to be filmed or witnessed. It's when there is no evidence at all that alarm bells quite rightly begin to tinkle.

[Fiend]

hell no !! 246 pages . got stuff to climb rather than spend my time talking shit on here . just flicked through the odd page - sorry if not doing my research doesn't allow me an opinion or humerous comment !! :-)

You should have tried that in the first place, it might have worked.

[webbo]

So Will you show lots of videos of you not getting up new problems, you claim to have done. Also I belive in front of lots of witnesses you had a major epic on Birds Nest Crack a classic severe.
I think its about time we called you out.

[Bonjoy]

To reiterate. I am not saying that those under scrutiny should not have to provide any evidence. What I am against is that EVERY significant ascent must be videod or witnessed by 12 peers of good standing with no conflicts of interest - for the reason that I believe that such a requirement can detract from the enjoyment of climbing.

I don't think I've ever come across anyone who thinks that level of evidence is necessary or desirable. In reality what's expected is a fraction of that, making the "it's too much of a pain in the arse" argument rather weak for people who by definition are highly motivated, expending vast time and effort on climbing hard. The evidence bar is set at 'take your hat off' rather than a limbo dancing height.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Thanks Chudders for your input and opinion. A bit of balance often helps, but isn't always wanted of course. So +1 for your own views.

[SA Chris]

Personally if I was climbing anywhere near 8a I would video the fuck out of every ascent I did, purely for bragging rights and reliving my glory moments again and again, and then boring the fuck out of anyone who I could drag in front of a screen.

Fuck sponsors, peers and doubters.

[kelvin]

Should there be an "evidence bar" when the guy's been in Font with his mates there with him? That's already been established. Or are all mates (basically ever belayer or spotter ever) to be discounted in favour of filmed evidence?
 It's not like film can't be manipulated these days.
That Jules fella who fell off the E10 - did anyone see him actually hit the ground? He could have buried mats into the floor, covered them with grass and took the fall. Cameras rolling... front page news.
*no insinuation meant

I fail to see why anyone should have to film anything when they have a group of mates with them.

Another point to add - a lot is made of Rich S, about his boxing record not stacking up to what he said. My old man was a pro, his doesn't either when you look on the web but he has the cuttings from the Daily Mirror etc. The internet gets lots wrong...

If Ellis and everyone else has to now meet an evidence bar that excludes friends - that's
 a sad state of affairs for a sport/hobby/lifestyle that prides itself in being as governing body free as possible.






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[tim palmer]

Fuck sponsors

I think sponsorship is probably the only situation in which these guys should video themselves, if only to protect themselves. 

In a hypothetical situation: If a climber is sponsored (money or equipment) on the strength of climbing hard stuff and it transpires that he or she is lying about an ascent(s), could a company take legal action against that individual (in a lance armstrong-y situation kind of way)?

[Sasquatch]

Can we leave this alone, or have it the discussion in the split thread?  Do we need to resplit? 

We hashed out our positions, and the general info re: "Significant Repeats"is well done and dusted.

[shark]

Can we leave this alone, or have it the discussion in the split thread?  Do we need to resplit? 

We hashed out our positions, and the general info re: "Significant Repeats"is well done and dusted.

 

That thread is here

Dave and Bonjoy 

[andyd]

So Will you show lots of videos of you not getting up new problems, you claim to have done. Also I belive in front of lots of witnesses you had a major epic on Birds Nest Crack a classic severe.
I think its about time we called you out.

Poor Will. If it makes you feel any better I don't mind if you stop filming. In fact,I sometimes wish you would!

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I'll take a bit of that action!

Leather? A mask maybe?

Would you like to film it? 

[andyd]

I'll take a bit of that action!

Leather? A mask maybe?

Would you like to film it? 

I'm not sure that UKB sponsors will be too interested in that.

[Sasquatch]

Only if you need proof in public

[kelvin]

Can we leave this alone, or have it the discussion in the split thread?  Do we need to resplit? 

We hashed out our positions, and the general info re: "Significant Repeats"is well done and dusted.

 [emoji14]lease:

That thread is here

Dave and Bonjoy 

Sorry Simon - I'll let you borrow my fetish gear to make up for it.

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[chudders1]

been away for a day having my sense of humour removed so i guess i can join in now and fit in better with everyone else !

[andyd]

been away for a day having my sense of humour removed so i guess i can join in now and fit in better with everyone else !