[Gus]

You're welcome! Common sense innit.

I also fully understand the accent thing. Being a Derby lad who doesn't normally use the first and last letters of most words, it has become apparent that I'm quite hard to understand for most British and even American people, despite us sharing the same language. I often work with yanks and Europeans, in which case I also find myself having to use the same accent as James. It annoys me as I listen to myself but without it, such phrases as "Im going up to Hanley am I not" come out as "Gown up anley duck innit"

[Jaspersharpe]

I spoke to James about the accent thing. It’s just something he’s picked up from speaking a lot of English to people who’re using it as their second language. He admitted it sounded a bit odd, but said (in a funny voice) that he couldn’t do much about it and wasn’t bothered anyway. It certainly isn’t some sort of deliberate affectation.
Fine effort BTW!

For sure, err it is, how you say, something that can err, happen....

 

[Jaspersharpe]

Well done James by the way. Great effort and took some balls to go back to it after all the previous crap.

[fried]

I spoke to James about the accent thing. It’s just something he’s picked up from speaking a lot of English to people who’re using it as their second language.

I haven't received any feedback about my accent from living abroad for fifteen years (so far), but I definitely noticed - quite early on too - that taling mostly to second language speakers and/or native English speakers with other dialects definitely has an averaging-out effect. I'm not only not up to date on current British slang, I'd also probably less likely to casually use words/phrases that I know are UK dialect specific.

It's not a conscious choice, it's just something that happens.

Me neither, but I find myself overcompensating when I'm back in the U.K and end up sounding like some Cockney sparra.

[tomtom]

I have a theory that expats in America end up speaking plum bbc accents to stop people mistaking them for Aussies

[Sloper]

Still not convinced that The Promise without any pads, ladders, 20 spotters etc et. is massively overgraded!!

Jesus fucking Christ Gus, thank you for making me feel not alone.
I really really struggle to comprehend how some peole fail - or pretend to - to understand this.
Even I, understand that.

Agreed, doing the 1st ascent is never the same as repeating something.

[Stubbs]

Still not convinced that The Promise without any pads, ladders, 20 spotters etc et. is massively overgraded!!

At E8 or E10?

[Jaspersharpe]

When he did the FA of The Promise JP was using a sequence that he thought was 8A with shit gear he didn't think would hold above a horrific landing. So he graded it for that.

There's no shame in someone finding an easier sequence (7B+ so much easier), happens all the time. The lines are then blurred by padding out the landing etc. so it becomes a different thing.

I still never thought this reflected badly on either the first ascent or the grade he gave it. He was comparing it to Equilibrium which he pissed.

[mrjonathanr]

For sure, err it is, how you say, something that can err, happen....

 

It's interesting that, to be so influenced by the rhythms of speech around you you adopt essentially alien patterns..

I wonder if McLaren was talking mostly in Dutch at that time, or in English to Dutch speakers who would obviously impose  their rhythms onto English?

'The Language of Prestige' is the pattern of speech which carries greatest status in a given context and is the one people drift to in their own speech. It's been put forward as a big reason behind South American Spanish adopting the pronunciation of Andalucia- the early settlers would have been from all over, but the very first arrivals and the sailors would have all had Andalucian patterns of speaking. 

Maybe that was the big driver for McLaren and Joey Barton sounding like they did.

[Jaspersharpe]

I always preferred to think that McLaren was just a cunt, but with hindsight you're probably right.

[Nibile]

When he did the FA of The Promise JP was using a sequence that he thought was 8A with shit gear he didn't think would hold above a horrific landing. AND NO PADS. So he graded it for that.

There's no shame in someone finding an easier sequence (7B+ so much easier), happens all the time. The lines are then blurred by padding out the landing etc. so it becomes a different thing.

I still never thought this reflected badly on either the first ascent or the grade he gave it. He was comparing it to Equilibrium which he pissed.

[Fiend]

Good wisdom from Gus Jasper and Nibs there, it's always been that sensible. Bonjoy should have taught him the dark art of ballnuts too, would have helped a bit...

[SA Chris]

It's interesting that, to be so influenced by the rhythms of speech around you you adopt essentially alien patterns..

I wonder if McLaren was talking mostly in Dutch at that time, or in English to Dutch speakers who would obviously impose  their rhythms onto English?

'The Language of Prestige' is the pattern of speech which carries greatest status in a given context and is the one people drift to in their own speech. It's been put forward as a big reason behind South American Spanish adopting the pronunciation of Andalucia- the early settlers would have been from all over, but the very first arrivals and the sailors would have all had Andalucian patterns of speaking. 

Maybe that was the big driver for McLaren and Joey Barton sounding like they did.

Or might explain this



(OT but brilliant)

[Sloper]

When he did the FA of The Promise JP was using a sequence that he thought was 8A with shit gear he didn't think would hold above a horrific landing. So he graded it for that.

There's no shame in someone finding an easier sequence (7B+ so much easier), happens all the time. The lines are then blurred by padding out the landing etc. so it becomes a different thing.

I still never thought this reflected badly on either the first ascent or the grade he gave it. He was comparing it to Equilibrium which he pissed.

I forget which of the legends in Font went around proudly telling people about the new 7c+ he'd done, when he showed them the problem they found a new sequence at 6c.

When I read the silly sort of things that people write about the Promise I can't help but compare them to the comments I made about claiming Banana Finger as E1 rather than a 5- boulder problem.

[Stu Littlefair]

What's all this about a new sequence? I compared the sequence JP used on the promise to the 'new' one and its identical.

All the talk about ladders and multiple pads is a bit revisionist too. Team America used one pad and thought it E8. The big difference is they thought the gear would hold. In this they were almost right, and JP was almost wrong.

I find it interesting that discussion has come back round to the promise after this ascent. In going back to Rhapsody, James has come full circle in his goal to re-invent himself as a climber. That he can return to this route that shut him down, admit that his dismissal of it was due to pique, and then to crush the shit out of it, James has shown clearly that he's moved on. I guess we haven't?

You're a legend James - I've got tons of respect for what you've done in dumbie.

[Sloper]

I'm not suggesting that there is/was a new sequence, only pointing out that people doing 1st ascents can get things seriously wrong grade wise or miss the blindingly obvious.

Out of interest what grade would people give The Promise if the gear placement blew and it was climbed onsight without mats. Was it Wall of Sound on Stannage that got seriously upgraded after the single gear placement failed and would no longer take gear?

Why have we come back to discussing The Promise? Probably because some people (i.e. those knocking the grade proposed) have a chip on their shoulder and an axe to grind.

 

[Jaspersharpe]

In going back to Rhapsody, James has come full circle in his goal to re-invent himself as a climber. That he can return to this route that shut him down, admit that his dismissal of it was due to pique, and then to crush the shit out of it, James has shown clearly that he's moved on. I guess we haven't?

You're a legend James - I've got tons of respect for what you've done in dumbie.

I did already say that Stu. 

[Stu Littlefair]

Wtf sloper. That's a bizarre reply, even from you. The only discussion of the promise (many posts) was from people saying James got it right! To say we're discussing it because those who knocked the grade have a chip on their shoulder is ridiculous! Do you think I asked Jasper to post multiple times, just so I could reply?

It was Jasper who kept posting about new sequences. I thought it needed nipping in the bud. Historical record and all that.

Everything else I agree with. James got the grade wrong a bit. Big deal. And if Jordan had had fewer mats when the gear blew he might have hurt himself.

[Jaspersharpe]

What are you on about Stu? I haven't posted multiple times about sequences. I mentioned it once as I was under the impression that a different one was used which brought the grade down. I thought that was what was reported at the time, perhaps my memory fails me.

Either way, I can see by using my eyes that I only said it once.

[cofe]

Jesus Christ Jasper, stop banging on about multiple sequences.

[Stu Littlefair]

Sorry guys - I was reading a post from sloper in reply to jasper and getting confused. My reply to sloper was improperly arsey as well. My apologies.

[a dense loner]

Stu your posts have got quite random of late have you got a big job on?

[Stu Littlefair]

I have, but I think it's more that you disagree with them, rather than my posts being random. Mis attributed quotes aside, my posts seem fine to me.

[Jaspersharpe]

Jesus Christ Jasper, stop banging on about multiple sequences.

Multiply this you dick.

Sorry guys - I was reading a post from sloper in reply to jasper and getting confused. My reply to sloper was improperly arsey as well. My apologies.

It's ok, I thought I was losing my mind for a minute.

[Stubbs]

I forgot to add my congratulations in my post, French 8c, must still be one of the hardest trad routes in the world.

I wonder what's next on this road to redemption, Once Upon a Time in the Southwest perhaps or spending some time on Ben Nevis?!