[jwi]

Finger crack in morpho shocker

[Fultonius]

Makes sense. Having checked Remus' site I see it's very commonly climbed by top end females - I cant say I knew that before making my comment!  (maybe some subconscious sexism I'm not aware of) - but it certainly wasn't my motivation for making the parallel with Keen Roof!  (more just that it's a very commonly climbed 8B+ and I had a vague memory of downgrade discussion.

Being accused of having beneficial morphology myself, I'm happy for the chisel fingered to get an easy ride once in a while - it would probably be 8C+ for me and my fat digits!

[tim palmer]

I have heard a lot of chat about NBL being soft and the number of ascents suggests this but I am not sure the best female comp climber of all time taking two sessions to do it adds any weight to this idea,  in fact it seems to suggest the grade being there or there abouts.
Last time I was in magic wood (2022) it shut down yannick flohe when he was strutting around smashing loads of 8b+s in a session.  I saw a video from this year of him climbing it like a spinalised cat so he made it over the line in the end bless him.

[Will Hunt]

You wait a year for a turn of phrase on UKB and then "never fucked a brick" and "spinalised cat" come along on the same day 

[SA Chris]

I chucked too. Also tried to find said vid to what it looks like.

[jakk]

Yeah my point in general is that its pretty wild that arguably the best climber to ever live comes and does a notoriously hard problem in a few tries and a bunch of blokes who've not tried it immediately start trying to decide if its soft or not (because she's a girl)....

[Fultonius]

Right, so, for me at least Janja doing it quickly had precisely zero to do with my comment. (Other than it reminding me of what I said below*)

Mine was based on the fact basically the first time I've heard of most of the people who have done NBL is when they've climbed NBL...  And a vague memory of it being suggested for downgrade. I now realise that was from 8C to 8B+. Wish I hadn't bothered...

And, while it might be the most commonly climbed 8B+ where it's someone's "only 8B+" I've got no axe to grind. All grade barriers need a bottom, middle and top end.

Shit, I'm sure on the right day Janja could climb harder in the same time...

*But being the first comment after the comment about Janja doing it clearly does look bad.its just not what I was thinking.

[Bradders]

I chucked too. Also tried to find said vid to what it looks like.

In case anyone else was querying what a spinalised cat looked like.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxgijn6NSLd/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

[Bradders]

All grade barriers need a bottom, middle and top end.

*spots opportunity to debate pointlessly*

This is essentially an argument for an even more granular grading system than we have now, whereas I would say the opposite is true. If I were in charge (one day) I'd have a less granular system, such as for instance having "low 7" to cover everything from 7A to 7A+, "mid 7" to cover 7B and 7B+ and "high 7" to cover 7C and 7C+. With slash grades available to make things even less clear cut 

NBL would be a "mid 8", covering the various possible experiences such as the slender fingered getting loads out of the crack versus the fat fingered getting a bit less. As a new visitor to the area you'd still have a good indicator of whether it might be achievable but with less of the trophy element of the grade and, hopefully, less of a chance for these debates.

I accept that debates will still happen, but I would hope it would be clearer that a tough high 7 was just a tough high 7 and not a low 8, versus the current state of affairs where the boundary between grades is imprecise at best and categorising them in such a granular way doesn't leave open the potential variation of experience for different people.

[JamieG]

I accept that debates will still happen, but I would hope it would be clearer that a tough high 7 was just a tough high 7 and not a low 8, versus the current state of affairs where the boundary between grades is imprecise at best and categorising them in such a granular way doesn't leave open the potential variation of experience for different people.

In that scenario all you’ve really done is replace letters and plus signs with words like low, high, tough. They achieve the same goal. It’s only an issue because people care too much about the number.

[jwi]

Japanese bouldering grades are twice as wide as V-grades/font grades. That doesn't seem to make much of a difference to anything. Other than that the grade always get translated to the higher possible grade in the media.

[Potash]

I found the approach taken by the Indian Creek guide to reduce the resolution of highly morpho crack routes by using 5.##-, 5.##, & 5.##+ instead of the four a, b, c, d subdivision worked well.

[remus]

I found the approach taken by the Indian Creek guide to reduce the resolution of highly morpho crack routes by using 5.##-, 5.##, & 5.##+ instead of the four a, b, c, d subdivision worked well.

imo it works well because almost every crack is obviously morpho, whereas with boulder problems there's a big middle ground of things that aren't particularly morpho and the extra resolution of the current system can be useful.

[Duma]

Speaking of which, I see Alex Waterhouse flashed Belly Full of Bad Berries the other day, with basically no experience of the style.

[csl]

Speaking of which, I see Alex Waterhouse flashed Belly Full of Bad Berries the other day, with basically no experience of the style.

Amazing, sounds like a real fight

[jwi]

Brilliant! One up on Ondra! I would think he had the right physique for inverted off-widths!

When they quote YDS as 5.11-, 5.11, 5.11+ etc the grade band get exactly as wide as Scandinavian grades (33% wider than French half-grades). That does not change much. Scandinavian grades have fallen out of fashion in sport climbing as the grade spans are .... eh... too wide. They are still used for trad though, so the width of the bands might be just right for that purpose.

[MischaHY]

Brilliant! One up on Ondra! I would think he had the right physique for inverted off-widths!

When they quote YDS as 5.11-, 5.11, 5.11+ etc the grade band get exactly as wide as Scandinavian grades (33% wider than French half-grades). That does not change much. Scandinavian grades have fallen out of fashion in sport climbing as the grade spans are .... eh... too wide. They are still used for trad though, so the width of the bands might be just right for that purpose.

Having recently gained a lot more experience with Skandi grades I actually am starting to favour this. It has me thinking less about the grade and just going for it on the OS regardless. It also reduces any frustration when failing because it's harder to know exactly what you're getting and some are just a bit harder than others. From this perspective I found it a positive thing.

[andy moles]

Another shout for generally less granularity in grades (I think it was on here someone once called me a 'lumper', as opposed to a 'splitter', or something like that).

Especially for bouldering, because so often problems have moves that favour specific strengths or physiques. The 'average' climber doesn't really exist, so you might as well not pretend that you can be meaningfully accurate. Just accurate enough to give an idea of whether a problem is worth trying or not.

[edshakey]

Speaking of which, I see Alex Waterhouse flashed Belly Full of Bad Berries the other day, with basically no experience of the style.

This is very impressive considering who hasn't flashed it, especially Tom Randall on his Century trip - who must have spent hundreds of times more hours in wide cracks than Alex. I was initially inclined to say Alex must be able to fight harder than anyone, which may be true, but I know Tom and Adam don't fall of things without a fair bit of effort!
He's obviously a crack natural 

[spidermonkey09]

Also that cracks, as much as anything else, might respond well to simply being way stronger; no doubt Pete and Tom are both brilliant climbers but I'd be willing to bet AW is eons stronger on most strength tests.

[Duncan campbell]

Think P-whiddy flashed it didn’t he??

[cheque]

Yes, his girlfriend flashed it too.

[crimpinainteasy]

Speaking of which, I see Alex Waterhouse flashed Belly Full of Bad Berries the other day, with basically no experience of the style.

I think his claim of no experience is a gross exaggeration. Alex climbed "The Kraken" Font 8B a while back so he definitely has experience in crack climbing.

[edshakey]

Speaking of which, I see Alex Waterhouse flashed Belly Full of Bad Berries the other day, with basically no experience of the style.

I think his claim of no experience is a gross exaggeration. Alex climbed "The Kraken" Font 8B a while back so he definitely has experience in crack climbing.

That's kinda what I was getting at though - he's done one hard crack boulder, in a completely different size, whereas TR spent years in his cellar doing stuff v similar to the style of BFOBB. When comparing the two, I'd readily say Alex has very little experience of the style.

[teestub]

Yes, his girlfriend flashed it too.

Mari Salvesen that is
https://youtu.be/jEQ-46aPIFg?si=BSnGd5y6R1bb2JZW