[JamieG]

There's a video of him on YouTube doing some deep water solos in Finland from the end of the summer last year. But yeah he's been very quiet. In a few of his most recent videos he didn't seem as psyched as before. Hope he is doing alright. I suspect the constant on the road lifestyle (whilst it seems on the surface amazing) is probably quite draining after years of doing it. Maybe he just needed a break. 

[lukeyboy]

A solid tick on the top ascents board yesterday. Hold Fast Hold True by H. Idden! Lovely conditions for it.

Franco

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CbumMLUDlhC/?utm_medium=copy_link

Nice! What's the controversy this time then? He used heel spurs? Lizard aid? Knee pads on his arms and legs? 50 helium balloons tied to his waist? Stunt double?

 

[Bradders]

Not sure what thread to put this in but since this thread gets plenty of traffic; does anyone know what Nalle Hukkataival is up to these days? Feels like I've not heard of him doing anything for like a year

I had the impression that he'd just taken himself off social media, but otherwise he was still going very well indeed. Kind of inspiring really.

[Moo]

fucked up the quote function 

[Moo]

A solid tick on the top ascents board yesterday. Hold Fast Hold True by H. Idden! Lovely conditions for it.

Franco

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CbumMLUDlhC/?utm_medium=copy_link

Nice! What's the controversy this time then? He used heel spurs? Lizard aid? Knee pads on his arms and legs? 50 helium balloons tied to his waist? Stunt double?

 

I think it's that he just went and did a hard route without fuss and then put up a perfectly normal post about it, instead of a word salad essay endeavouring to relay his experience to the reader.

[JamieG]

A solid tick on the top ascents board yesterday. Hold Fast Hold True by H. Idden! Lovely conditions for it.

Franco

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CbumMLUDlhC/?utm_medium=copy_link

Nice! What's the controversy this time then? He used heel spurs? Lizard aid? Knee pads on his arms and legs? 50 helium balloons tied to his waist? Stunt double?

 

I think it's that he just went and did a hard route without fuss and then put up a perfectly normal post about it, instead of a word salad essay endeavouring to relay his experience to the reader.

Very suspicious! 

[HaeMeS]

Not sure what thread to put this in but since this thread gets plenty of traffic; does anyone know what Nalle Hukkataival is up to these days? Feels like I've not heard of him doing anything for like a year

He was climbing in Chulilla in Januari.

[Wellsy]

If Nalle is doing stuff just not on the socials then good for him, I just would have thought you'd hear about it through the grapevine is all. Glad he's still doing stuff though, he's my favourite climber

[teestub]

Dave Mac has taken care of business in Langdale

https://www.davemacleod.com/blog/lexicon

[Fiend]

Christ that's a lot of fucking words to skim to find out the downgrade is as subtle as "it's harder than the other hard trad routes I've climbed in England and Wales" (which are all E8 or E9 after the obligatory downgrades - including Breathless). Also all that stuff about age is great - IF you can remain a skinny sod.

Seriously tho, great effort and great to sneak it in before the arctic winter. Maybe he'll do a hard winter route to wind down...

[Nutty]

Christ that's a lot of fucking words to skim to find out the downgrade is as subtle as "it's harder than the other hard trad routes I've climbed in England and Wales"

Don't worry Fiend, the downgrade is less subtle in the UKC interview:

"Other climbs that I've done since I've graded in that fashion include Mind Riot on Binnein Shuas a couple of years ago, and that is significantly harder and more dangerous than Lexicon and I gave it E10."

[Wood FT]

That's more like it.

[andy moles]

I always find this aspect of Dave's philosophy on motivation and risk fascinating.

From the UKC interview:
When you identify with doing a route where you're like, 'I've got to do that — I can't not do that!' You know that at some point, you're going to be on the lead, it's just inevitable.

And from his blog:
Unfinished climbs have always been a source of chronic pain to me, an ache I can tolerate for long periods when there is no other option. But the minute I can change the picture, I’ll do anything I can to resolve it. When I say ache, I mean that in a good way, like the ache of burning muscles in training. It’s good pain! The minute I resolve it, I’m almost instantly looking to cause it again and have lived this way for 25 years. There is an expression that pain is the cost of being alive and as far as I’m concerned, it’ll stop when I’m dead.

It makes me wonder if, beneath all the meticulous preparation and science and reason, Dave is at the core a nutter.

[andy moles]

I like that he's said about as much as he can short of explicitly stating 'it's not E11' (despite saying himself "What we really need is more people to repeat the routes and then be forthright about the grade") but they still publish the headline 'Lexicon E11 7a'. To be fair he's not hesitated to downgrade things in the past, perhaps feels too much like weeing on a mate's chips.

But maybe I'm mistaken, and that's actually the name of the route?

Lexicon E11 7a (E10 7a)?

[remus]

It makes me wonder if, beneath all the meticulous preparation and science and reason, Dave is at the core a nutter.

I remember watching E11, my dad wandered over and watched it for a few minutes then walked off with the parting phrase "He's mental. Completely obsessed!"

It's a funny thing, on the one hand dedication, training hard etc. in sport is lauded but then to the average person it can and does look like an unhealthy obsession, especially when the subject of the climber's desire is something with an element of danger.

[AJM]

I like that he's said about as much as he can short of explicitly stating 'it's not E11' (despite saying himself "What we really need is more people to repeat the routes and then be forthright about the grade") but they still publish the headline 'Lexicon E11 7a'. To be fair he's not hesitated to downgrade things in the past, perhaps feels too much like weeing on a mate's chips.

But maybe I'm mistaken, and that's actually the name of the route?

Lexicon E11 7a (E10 7a)?

I was left wondering whether the easiest “fix” is just to upgrade some of the Scottish routes. If Mind Riot is a big step up from Lexicon in difficulty and danger and E10, then what does Lexicon become - E9? Very opposite ends of E10, at a minimum? But if that’s the case, then the internally consistent scale he describes for England and Wales where Lexicon gets a higher grade than all the things he has done that are easier propositions just got broken…

[Carliios]

Christ that's a lot of fucking words to skim to find out the downgrade is as subtle as "it's harder than the other hard trad routes I've climbed in England and Wales"

Don't worry Fiend, the downgrade is less subtle in the UKC interview:

"Other climbs that I've done since I've graded in that fashion include Mind Riot on Binnein Shuas a couple of years ago, and that is significantly harder and more dangerous than Lexicon and I gave it E10."

Brutal, but honesty is always appreciated.

[andy moles]

In reply to Remus:

Yes, the danger element is not really referenced in this case, but in the past he's said things to the effect that the risk of injury in the case of something going wrong on the route is outweighed by the risk to his mental state if he doesn't do the route.

On the one hand, you could say it's wise balancing of real risks to his wellbeing that recognises desire as a legitimate factor in decision making, but it can also look like a bit of mental gymnastics to justify a pathological level of drive.

[andy moles]

I was left wondering whether the easiest “fix” is just to upgrade some of the Scottish routes. If Mind Riot is a big step up from Lexicon in difficulty and danger and E10, then what does Lexicon become - E9? Very opposite ends of E10, at a minimum? But if that’s the case, then the internally consistent scale he describes for England and Wales where Lexicon gets a higher grade than all the things he has done that are easier propositions just got broken…

I mean, it does sound like Mind Riot is undergraded compared to everything else. He said it's probably harder than Rhapsody. Why he gave it E10 isn't totally clear - basically as a correction of what he seemed to have come to perceive as an overgrading of Rhapsody, perhaps?

And then there's Echo Wall, which rarely even gets mentioned even by Dave any more, which will probably stand forever as the mythical island just beyond the horizon on the grading scale. It's already waited a lot longer than one-time equivalent Indian Face did for a repeat, and I'm not hearing of any wads with shovels looking to rent in the Fort.

[Fiend]

"Other climbs that I've done since I've graded in that fashion include Mind Riot on Binnein Shuas a couple of years ago, and that is significantly harder and more dangerous than Lexicon and I gave it E10."

Ah that's more like the bantz that I'm after. "Not as hard as one of my routes I gave a lower grade" is a reliable classic.

It makes me wonder if, beneath all the meticulous preparation and science and reason, Dave is at the core a nutter.

Definitely both. Completely obsessed but with the iron willpower and robotic discipline to make that obsession extraordinarily effective.

[andy moles]

Definitely both. Completely obsessed but with the iron willpower and robotic discipline to make that obsession extraordinarily effective.

Aye. I suppose it just strikes me as something of an omission in his otherwise thorough analysis of things, a reflection on the underpinning principle of it all being 'must climb hard things'. But then maybe the fact that I think of it that way reveals why I am a punter and Dave is the King.

All hail 

[Wellsy]

Good ol Dave Mac. What a lad.

[shark]

I feel like this could be a poll but who do we think will nip in for the second ascent?

1. Steve Maclure, who will agree with everything Neil says.
2. Dave Macleod, who will praise the quality whilst subtly suggesting it’s two grades easier than Echo Wall.

Duncan called it

[AJM]

I was left wondering whether the easiest “fix” is just to upgrade some of the Scottish routes. If Mind Riot is a big step up from Lexicon in difficulty and danger and E10, then what does Lexicon become - E9? Very opposite ends of E10, at a minimum? But if that’s the case, then the internally consistent scale he describes for England and Wales where Lexicon gets a higher grade than all the things he has done that are easier propositions just got broken…

I mean, it does sound like Mind Riot is undergraded compared to everything else. He said it's probably harder than Rhapsody. Why he gave it E10 isn't totally clear - basically as a correction of what he seemed to have come to perceive as an overgrading of Rhapsody, perhaps?

And then there's Echo Wall, which rarely even gets mentioned even by Dave any more, which will probably stand forever as the mythical island just beyond the horizon on the grading scale. It's already waited a lot longer than one-time equivalent Indian Face did for a repeat, and I'm not hearing of any wads with shovels looking to rent in the Fort.

Yeah I'm not sure about why on Mind Riot either, since if that's E10 and harder than Rhapsody then even if MR is the upper limit of the grade that suddenly Rhapsody is what, maybe mid grade? Again, what does that mean for everything else.

It feels a bit like Dave now operates a quasi-closed grading system where E10 is as hard as it gets, and the grade compression that implies doesn't feel very beneficial.

And yes, who knows about Echo Wall.

[colin8ll]

I wonder if Dave was tempted to just defer to Steve Mac on the grade as Steve has climbed all the hardest routes in England, and if I recall correctly, seemed ok with the grade of Lexicon. Dave could then adjust the grades of his own routes retrospectively.