[abarro81]

I'm not sure that formula works quite right for boulder grades, I don't think I know many people flashing a large proportion of the problems they do at max-3 grades... I think this only works if not putting that much time into 'max'? Doing max-2 pretty fast seems more realistic

[sdm]

I think flashing x-2 is probably very rare in bouldering if x is actually your max.

I have flashed x-2 once, but it was a clear outlier. It suited my style perfectly and I suspect it was soft, time will tell as it gets more repeats.

I can't think of another x-2 that I've been close to flashing. I've never flashed x-3, and there's only 3 x-4 that I've flashed.

I have climbed a few x-2 in a session, but the average number of sessions is probably about 3.

I don't think many of the people I climb with regularly have flashed x-2.

[remus]

I have flashed x-2 once, but it was a clear outlier. It suited my style perfectly and I suspect it was soft, time will tell as it gets more repeats.

Couldn't you say something similar about your hardest problems though? If you are anything like me, I've done a couple of things at x but there's plenty of x out there which don't suit me for whatever reason and might as well be x+2 in terms of how feasible they actually seem to me.

[Wellsy]

Backflip SDS
The Charles Albert thing. I'm sorry but eating boiled-up ladybirds and sleeping in a cave does not a 9A make.
Alphane (obvs)
Either Soudain Seul or RotS.

Finally Will Hunt breaks his long silence on grades, you don't see that very often

[jwi]

You can also demonstrate that you have the required level by repeating a lot of problems at X-2 in short order. Like Nalle did after Burden, where he demonstrated his level by repeating many 8C in few attempts.

Or Seb Bouin for 9c endurance routes. We can believe he has the level because 9b endurance routes are clearly piss.

Most who've done correctly graded 7C can do an occasional 7B flash, and they do most that suit them in a few tries. At least that is my experience. Same for 8A and 7A

I think this is far, far too formulaic and only holds if the hypothetical climbers professed 'max' is in fact nowhere near their max. Maybe a British climber thing where we have so little rock that sieging stuff becomes the norm.

True, some people are very strong or very flexible but really bad at climbing and have a hard time climbing things quckly since they have to learn how to climb on the actual climbs they are trying to siege. Maybe this is true for entire sub-populations of climbing (it used to be too true in northern scandinavia when the climbing season was short and there were no good gyms), but for the elite, those who climb near full time, I would expect them to be very good at doing things that suit them fast.

[Wellsy]

You can tell that it is absolutely not the standard to be able to climb 9A and flash 8C because nobody has done it, and most haven't flashed 8B+

It doesn't really matter whether one thinks they should be able to; they haven't

[sdm]

I have flashed x-2 once, but it was a clear outlier. It suited my style perfectly and I suspect it was soft, time will tell as it gets more repeats.

Couldn't you say something similar about your hardest problems though? If you are anything like me, I've done a couple of things at x but there's plenty of x out there which don't suit me for whatever reason and might as well be x+2 in terms of how feasible they actually seem to me.

Definitely, there's a lot more x that I can't do than x that I can do. As I get closer to my max grade, the problems that I do tend to suit my style more and more. They tend to feature at least one of my strengths (steep, 3D climbing, compression, crimps, long, flexible footwork). The maximum I'm capable of climbing in something that suits me less well might only be x-2.

The x-2 that I flashed felt like a big outlier, even among such a self selecting sample.

Put me on my anti style (big dynos on slopey pinches) and the max I'm capable of climbing might only be x-5.

[jwi]

You can tell that it is absolutely not the standard to be able to climb 9A and flash 8C because nobody has done it, and most haven't flashed 8B+

It doesn't really matter whether one thinks they should be able to; they haven't

That's why I suspect the grade bands are too narrow in the higher grades.

That said, Tomoa, Adam and Jacob have all demonstrated a level where I would expect them to be able to climb 8C+/9A max

[Wellsy]

Your suspicion is that because the climbers performances don't match up to a requirement you have personally created that the grade bands are too narrow? That seems backwards to me.

[remus]

Your suspicion is that because the climbers performances don't match up to a requirement you have personally created that the grade bands are too narrow? That seems backwards to me.

I can't remember where it came from, but there's a similar x/x-2 rule of thumb for sport that's been floating around for quite a long time, so I suspect jwi is just applying the same idea to bouldering.

[remus]

[Wellsy]

Hahahaha I love his surprise when he does it

[jwi]

Your suspicion is that because the climbers performances don't match up to a requirement you have personally created that the grade bands are too narrow? That seems backwards to me.

I can't remember where it came from, but there's a similar x/x-2 rule of thumb for sport that's been floating around for quite a long time, so I suspect jwi is just applying the same idea to bouldering.

They come from some data I stole and some I borrowed. The theory is however from the 80s.

I'm much more confident about the sport grades because the data is better. And sport grades make more sense because of CLT.

I'm not an idiot: I don't require all individual climbers to perform to the x/x-2.5 rule, but the population should

[thunderbeest]

But isn't flashing a lot harder to get everything in place? Showing up on a boulder where there's someone who has done it or has worked it. There being a video available or even tick marks on it isn't a given I'd say.
Of course if you're Adam Indra you're probably able to get the FA to show you the place and beta, but for the rest of us?

[rjtrials]

In the post climb self - interview section, the flake looks like it's got loads of glue behind it!!??!!  Would be interesting to know more about the "stabilization" on this boulder, especially since I recall some (not)subtle shit talk about similar things in Scotland? 

[spidermonkey09]

 I just went back for another look and I'm not sure it does, just looks like chalk to me. Am I going blind?

[JamieG]

I agree. I think its just chalk. If you look at the hold close up shots near the start I can't see anything that looks like glue.

[remus]

I went to have a look at it a few months ago. Unless it's broken in the meantime or been glued extremely subtley (both seem unlikely) then there's no glue on it.

[stone]

That's why I suspect the grade bands are too narrow in the higher grades.

My thought about your idea is that many/most people climbing at a sub-elite level never siege in the manner that most of these top level routes/problems typically get redpointed. Loads of people who have eg 8b or 7C as their best redpoint will have done those in a few sessions within an untailored climbing schedule.

My impression by contrast is that 9b+ or 8C+ accents often entail people devoting their lives and souls to them for extended periods. 

Onsights "just" require someone to perform for minutes. So I'd expect sub-elite people to have a smaller grade gap between best onsight and best redpoint. I'm an intermediate level climber with a big gap between onsight and redpoint grades but I do indulge in lengthly seiges (but very shambolic ones unlike the professional focus of elite redpoint climbers).

[Fiend]

Hahahaha I love his surprise when he does it

It's brilliant, he's got such a good vibe 

[Bradders]

The theory is however from the 80s.

Must be right then, not much has changed since then.

[crimpinainteasy]

Grade maths is weird. It took Will 6 sessions to climb the easier start into Terranova which is only meant to be 8B+/C but 8 sessions to send spots of time.

[sirlockoff]

Grade maths is weird. It took Will 6 sessions to climb the easier start into Terranova which is only meant to be 8B+/C but 8 sessions to send spots of time.

and I've had 10+ sessions on glasshour 7A (no send yet) and sent multiple 8A