[Christobal]

I am starting this thread because of a couple of recent discussions with my Swedish countrymen about the subject of rehearsing moves on boulderproblems.
From my standpoint. The practice of bouldering is of no consequense to the greater scheme of things, I will not get rich from it and propably no one will think i am great because of it.
Therefore, the greatness of my futile pursuit lies solely in what satisfaction i derive from it and for me doing a boulderproblem is a serie of challenges.
From arriving at the boulder, looking at the type of rock, what shoe to wear, figuring out a sequence, trying the moves and maybe get move by move closer to the top, to succede or wait for another day to climb the problem.
I don´t just want to get up a problem. I like to do it in a for me proper fashion. When i struggle on a move and a friend says: -"Why not let me give you a push so you can get a feeling of how to do the top moves"? I just wonder: Why?
I do not want to compromise my ascent. Don´t get me wrong,  I think another climber has done a problem just as much as i have even if they they try the moves first with assistance by a friend or a rope but I don´t want to.
On occasion I have abseiled down a highball problem to test the top moves before sending but i have always been regretful afterwards as these ascents have not been as dearly remembered as the ones where i have gone through the whole mind/body experience of doing a problem ground up.
I guess Im just feeling a  bit lonely as I seem to be the only one feeling this way and I´d like to hear your opinion on the subject.

[slackline]

You're honest about your style of ascent, you don't degrade others efforts (as long as they are honest, presumably).

You have good ethics Christobal. 

[Plattsy]

Sounds like good ethics to me. Powerspotting sucks.

Reminds me of my attempts on La Marie Rose this year. Just needed to find the foot hold for my right foot so I could go for the top jug. I was struggling a bit to find the hold so the German guy spotting me grabbed my foot and placed it for me. Thanks a bunch!

He didn't understand why I couldn't give myself the tick. Still yet to do it.

[Jaspersharpe]

Interesting post Christobal. As you say it's down to the individual and how you feel about your ascent. To me it differs according to the problem. If there is an element of highball about it then you're going to feel like you've achieved a bit more by managing it ground up. However, even if you toprope it first and then climb it you've still done the problem, just not in such good style.

Otherwise, I don't give a toss. Some problems you can work every move off the deck, others you can't without a bit of assistance. What's the difference? It's redpointing at the end of the day so to me it doesn't matter a jot how you work the problem first.

[grumpycrumpy]

 :agree:I'm with jasper on this one , a bit of judicious help to get your foot in the right place is still only part of 'working' the problem .... The important thing surely is to then do it without any assistance ....

[Plattsy]

If you can work all the moves off the deck then fair enough I'd have no problem doing that. But getting a leg up from a friend to work upper moves (when you can't do the lower moves) just seems wrong to me. Horses for courses I guess.

[Jaspersharpe]

How about walking round to the top to have a feel of the finishing holds etc? 

[slackline]

..... getting a leg up from a friend to work upper moves (when you can't do the lower moves) just seems wrong to me. Horses for courses I guess.

That used to be called "Combined tactics" 

[dave]

are you jokers shitting me? how the fuck you work a problem makes no difference, jumpstarts, mat stacks, powerspots, ab ropes, traversing in, stepladders, whatever its all irrelevent (unless as mentioned above its some kinda of highball faux-route).

this reminds me of the idiots on cocktalk years ago who would claim that using a clipstick to equip a sport route was cheating. I can't believe we're even having this discussion.

[Jaspersharpe]

My next question was going to be about how ethical using the Crag X ladder is but I'll shut up now. 

this reminds me of the idiots on cocktalk years ago who would claim that using a clipstick to equip a sport route was cheating. I can't believe we're even having this discussion.

Or the downclimbing debate? 

[travs]

My understanding was that you weren't allowed to climb at CragX unless you had teetered to very top rung of the ladder with it resting on the pinch and with the base no further than 1m away from the rock.

[Jaspersharpe]

I was doing just that the other month and having to kick the fucker out of the way to pull on (with my mat propped against it so that it fell into the correct position once the ladder fell over). 

[Plattsy]

How about walking round to the top to have a feel of the finishing holds etc? 

I'd certainly have a look and a brush. I would have a feel if I thought it necessary and I have no problem jumping up to try and work the higher moves. But a leg up is just wrong. In my humble shit weak punter opinion.

[tomtom]

I feel a cliche ridden reply coming but what the fuck..
At the end of the day (#1...) climbing is done largely for personal reasons, so you make up your own rules. If you have head/mat/redpointed a route/problem, brushed it to death, tried every move etc.. etc.. etc.. then if you get as much of a kick out of doing it as someone who has done it with the 'purest of ethics' (whatever they are - I suspect theres pages of wank about that on UKC) then so what! !!

Its all about the personal experience (to me it is anyway) and if someone feels the same buzz from both then thats fantastic!

[cowboyhat]

 But a leg up is just wrong. In my humble shit weak punter opinion.

You're just making things unnecessarily hard for yourself. A punter you will stay.

Dave's post sums it up really.

[Monolith]

I don't think anybody should be having ontological nightmares if they happen to feel the need to peruse the finishing holds; to the contrary, a lack of doing this has been my downfall on a number of limestone eliminate occasions.

The thread title reminded me of something that happened recently to Mr Crouch. Whilst up at Norman Wisdom's area on the Orme, he happened to cutloose in control but received a pressure dab from a spotting friend (who importantly, was in place to prevent him from flying off the cliff edge). Upon application of pressure, Mr Crouch decided to  dismount and ball expletives at his spotter and the afternoon I'm told turned rather sour. This was quite out of character for the man and his behaviour was attributed to drinking two cans of Relentless before climbing.
   

[BenF]

Upon application of pressure, Mr Crouch decided to  dismount and ball expletives at his spotter and the afternoon I'm told turned rather sour. This was quite out of character for the man and his behaviour was attributed to drinking two cans of Relentless before climbing.

However, the incident did provide hours of fun for all others present.  The drinking of far too much cheap energy drink being entirely within character and the dabbing of spotter being funny as fuck, given who was involved (ie King Dab Mr Crouch   ).

[Will Hunt]

Dont make him angry, you wouldn't like him when he's angry



Poor Jamie looks like he's about to get his head crushed 

[philo]

if someone did a move with a "powerspot" then claimed to do the ascent then yeah thats wrong, but if they took a powerspot to feel the moves and work it, then jump on and do the moves then whats wrong with that?  its just like doing a move starting off the floor, the mat, 2 mats etc. i can see how starting of 7 mats would compromise but for problems that say, start off  a bloc or if you 5ft and cant reach the start holds etc then its just stupid.

[n_man]

are you jokers shitting me? how the fuck you work a problem makes no difference, jumpstarts, mat stacks, powerspots, ab ropes, traversing in, stepladders, whatever its all irrelevent (unless as mentioned above its some kinda of highball faux-route).

When does something become highball? Why does that make a difference to ethics? Are we in a strange world where the higher you go the less ethics there are?

[butters]

When does something become highball?

When you get to a height that the fear of coming off overrules your cojones personally speaking.

bluebrad

[slackline]

if someone did a move with a "powerspot" then claimed to do the ascent then yeah thats wrong, but if they took a powerspot to feel the moves and work it, then jump on and do the moves then whats wrong with that?  its just like doing a move starting off the floor, the mat, 2 mats etc. i can see how starting of 7 mats would compromise but for problems that say, start off  a bloc or if you 5ft and cant reach the start holds etc then its just stupid.

Biohazard : there is no black or white there are only shades of mother-fucking grey!

[lagerstarfish]

When does something become highball?

answer

should be balls-high IMRO

[Richie Crouch]

I still feel like a c*** whenever anyone reminds me of that day! 

Jamie deserved the rage though, after an unwarranted lobbing of a large brown stick to the head over the top of the pad 

[Will Hunt]

Jamie deserved the rage

 

He usually does!