[Dave Flanagan]

Are any of Gill's problems still unrepeated?

I am sure some of the obscure ones are unrepeated but "The Groove" on the Fatted Calf Boulder, near Pueblo, Colorado done in 1978 has only seen one repeat (by Jim Holloway) and is at least Font 7c+/V10. Chest cartilage has been torn on its Gaston move.



Have you seen http://www.johngill.net its very good and updated very regularly.
Interview http://www.theshortspan.com/stuff/johngill/johngill.htm

[Bubba]

Chest cartilage has been torn on its Gaston move.

mmmmmm.....tasty  :shock:

That pic doesn't even make it look that hard!

[dave]

When did Careless Torque get done? think it was mid eighties.

'87

[Blunk]

Holloway's problems are well-publicized and 2 (Meathook and Trice) are in popular spots, both have been tried by scores of wanna-be's. I have heard but not confirmed that Ben Moon has tried Trice. Considering how many very strong boulderers have been thru Colorado I agree it is almost unbelievable none of these problems have been repeated in nearly 30 years.

[Bubba]

And also Holloway's Slapshot from the same era I believe is unrepeated and is touted as being V13.

A bit ahead of his time, wasn't he?

Hey Scott, you didn't tell us you had a part to play in the invention of V Grades  :wink:   :D

http://www.frontrangebouldering.com/archives/oldinterview/scottblunk/interview.html

[dobbin]

Tom Proctor was tearing it down in the Peak from the late 60's early 70's so I guess he's a contender.

When did Holloway do Slapshot?

[Bubba]

And is some of John Allen's early stuff hard enough to be in contention?

Just says "early/mid 70's" for Slapshot.

[dobbin]

V13 back then, awesome! Spose those yanks got good on the small stones early on due to people like Jon Gill and his new style of climbing, whilst with the exception of a few people the Brits failed to see that the real fun was closer to home.

[chris]

so is careless torque the first really hard problem to be done?

who do you think is/was the most influencial boulderer in britain??

my vote goes to the self-proclaimed master jerry moffatt...every where you go you'll find a problem of his, all of which are pretty good lines and doing superman in '88 is awesome!

shame about his dodgy fashion sense!...wide boy :shock:

[tc]

re: "...in the UK it wasn't until Ben and Jerry started getting serious that hard boulder problems were opened over here, bouldering was always seen as messing around by the hard climbers until then..."

Don't believe the hype! And thanks, Scouse D, for pointing out the Pex contribution. For the historic context, and to set the record straight, Merseyside sandstone (technical face problems at Pex and the Breck mainly, but with the odd thing at Frodsham and Helsby) had provided a few problems up to V5/V6 pre 1974, mainly the work of Rouse, Boyson, Potts, Pearce et al. V6/V7 came in about 1974 at both Pex and the Breck (Bluebell Traverse being the classic). Brit 6b, and isolated Brit 6c moves, were being done at the Breck in the mid-to-late 70s, courtesy of Mark Whitfield (who built models of problems in his parents' garage, Leigh Mc Ginley, TC (yours truly), Tom Jones, Paul Bolger and - a short while later - Keith Jones and Mike Collins. Pex is far better documented, so I'll leave that, and tales of Lew, John Hart, Phil, Gaz and Joe, to Scouse D to fill in the blanks.
Steve Haston visited the Breck in 1980 and upped the ante with a problem that is still reckoned to be around the Brit 7a mark (and thus Font 7c/V9). Late 1970s onwards, it was over to Greg Griffiths and, later, Yag at the Breck (both with V9/Font 7c additions) and Phil Davidson, Joe & Gaz Heally at Pex to take things further. This is when Monoblock came in, I think.
Plenty of the old skool lads (myself, Keith Jones and Mike Collins, Joe Heally, etc. included) made the trip over to Font to doss in the woods, so bouldering as an end in itself was firmly established pre-1980. On my first trip to Yosemite in 1979 I spent 75% of the time bouldering (big hair, white jeans, headband and all - oh, dear!) Problem was, in those days it was hard to find the info you needed (we tended to spend a lot of the time at Bas Cuvier, for example, being sandbagged or climbing in the scorching heat) and the bouldering scene was tiny and ill-documented, compared to the "sport for all" movement we have now.

We need to hear from Manson (or Bernard Newman) for the definitive early 1970s history from the other side of the Pennines (Yorkshire) and probably Allen and Bancroft for the Peak angle.

Apologies to anyone I've inadvertantly omitted, but this was done from memory and in haste.
Hope it helps set things in context.

[tc]

Oh, yeah - then there's Northumberland to consider. And Southern Sandstone. And the Gywnant Crack. And O.G. Jones' groundbreaking ascent of Gash Rock, Langstrath, before The Flood!

[Blunk]

Slapshot was either 1977 or 1978. I bouldered about 10 times with Holloway during that era. It was obvious he was strong, but in my youthful self-delusions I thought "he's not that much better than me." Live and learn.

Bachar said in an interview that Holloway was "absolutely, by far, the smoothest motherfucker" he ever saw climb. I have to agree with that, he made everything look about 5.10.

Thanks for your post TC. I figured there were folks before Jerry with a bouldering mentality, but of course one never reads about them.

[Bubba]

Excellent info tc - thanks a lot for that. I knew all my info was very Peak centric.

It'd be interesting to hear from some old skoolers from Northumberland and Yorkshire.

Wasn't Bob Smith et al climbing pretty hard stuff back in the day up in the County?

[AndyR]

What about Pete Kirtons stuff in the County and on the Bowderstone - what grades do these get?

[Bubba]

Kirton was always held in very high esteem by all the 80's Sheffield boys, especially for his ability to never train and then repeatedly come out of retirement and do all the latest testpieces.

When did Cubby start putting up his hard stuff in Scotland and the County?

[fatboySlimfast]

What about Pete Kirtons stuff in the County and on the Bowderstone

Its a shame that Vienna is so trashed now, 15 years ago when i first went to Bowden none of the footholds that are HUGE now were actually there. It was almost a flat wall with a few smears on, pete did it direct with out any of the intermediates. Think the handholds have worn out as well making them bigger. shame especially when you hear spraying bout how easy it is

[dave]

shame especially when you hear spraying bout how easy it is

everyones still eager to bandy grades like 7c+ around for it though (see stick it adn various website)!!!!

[tc]

...also Gabe Regan in Chew Valley or the Plantation and
that other guy - Dougie Hall - fucking genius, untouchable, unsung, and
Jonny Woodward at the Roaches. hey..! Do not forget them, nor Don at the Bridestones even when fat, and Hank Pasquill, Ray Evans and Dave Hollows in Lancashire, Dave Barton too. Could write a book on it all (but I won't)

[Bubba]

I think a lot of people are really interested in the history of bouldering, partly because there's so little of it, and so much hearsay. More info the better in my mind.

Was Woodward a big boulderer then? Dougie Hall was really an 80's boy though wasn't he?

Brown's/Whillans' stuff wasn't that hard though was it? The Villian at Bridestones is only V2....

[tc]

Jeezus - I forgot Ron. How can you forget Ron? Sorry, Ron. And Jerry Peel and...

[fatboySlimfast]

Nadin(who needs ready brek, early 80's!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[dobbin]

Al Manson!

[tc]

Yorkshire grit in the 70s, there was Jerry Peel, Manson, later Andy Brown but none of these were as good as Phil Davidson

[tc]

I am a American getting to the age when history becomes of interest, i.e. can't climb hard anymore and need something else to ponder. I'm curious when various standards were reached in Britain. According to Gough's Font guide the French attained Font7b in 1977, whilst 7a had been around for decades already. I have to assume you lot were well ahead of the French, since us Yanks were. Jim Holloway had done at least 3 problems 8a or harder by the mid-70's, and many people in Colorado and California were doing 7c's fairly regularly.

Hi Blunk. I resurrected this thread from last year as I am intrigued by your statement that 7c was a regular Colorado and California ocurrence in the 70s. What were these problems and who was doing them?

[a dense loner]

i am intrigued by this as well. if this was the case how come it was left to jerry to do the hardest probs in the states in the early 80's n also his on-sights of the hardest probs in font in the early eighties (which were all around 7c).  :?

something else which i have always (well, for ages) wondered is how many of these cutting edge probs have been tried by people, who have a chance of doing them. some of these probs are put up in places considered a backwater by many, aren't visited n cos they don't see a repeat are considered nails etc

dougie hall, 'basic' nick plishko. wad