[Norton Sharley]

Shirley not.  Fat = fat, therefore both weigh the same?  Therefore lanky twat can be weaker to do the same problem.  Ergo climbing is easier if you are tall and fat. 

[Bonjoy]

And I don't know where Pitcairn gets the idea that short climbers weigh less, has he ever met me or the Fatdoc?  Clearly not.

fat short climbers do weight less than fat tall climbers though! you've got to compare apples with apples.

Get real Dave! You'd have to have apples with extremely springy stalks for one to make any progress whatsoever on Playhard, even a tall thin apple like the Golden Delicious would do little but loiter around on the chippings waiting to be stepped on.

[Norton Sharley]

And what about the density of the apples?  Golden Delicous are not very dense but big and round when compared to a Granny Smith which is more dense but smaller.  Both could have the same mass but be different sizes.  Comparing apples with apples is really not that straightforward.

[dave]

we all know those with the biggest cox are the real winners in this fruit salad.

[SA Chris]

 a Big cox is useless without a big pear.

[Norton Sharley]

witness my avatar

[SA Chris]

I meant a pair downstairs not moobs.

[rodma]

 

on grounds of attempted personal insult.

 

Short climbers have an advantage on all non-obviously-reachy problems because they are lighter and have less leverage...

 

Your the lank with less leverage, us dwarves have more leverage 

Your right.  I said more when I meant less.  Bad bad bad! 

Bah, go back to cranking one armers Roddy, you pedantic dwarf...   

I know this is seriously  but, how many years ago was it that you helped me place gear on lead, when I took my first fall?

For some reason I remembered that incident just the other day. 

I think it was 1990 or 1991 

That makes me feel seriously old...

Will be back in edinburgh at christmas - might see you at A2.

I thought that it might have been that long ago, tried not to work it out, but that was more than half my life ago  :'

In Hueco this Crimbo, when are you about?

(

And as for short arms = short levers how is this really supposed to work? 

For example, if we take the simple case of a one arm lock off with the arm at a ninety degree angle, the load on the shoulder, which is the reaction force that the body must exert to lock off the arm and therefore the 'strength' that must be applied, is the force at the arm (weight of the climber) multiplied by the distance, the length of the upper arm.  The 'strength applied' is force x distance.

I think your quite right.

I'm crap at one-armers because my arm doesn't close beyond about 45degrees (as in pi/4 not the temperature), leaving quite a long lever to rotate once I am about 3/4 of the way through the movement. so I would need substantially bigger shoulders to be able to ever really do a full proper man-one-armer.

[lagerstarfish]

climbing is easier if you are tall and fat. 

I am tallish and fat and I find climbing easy. CORROBORATION

My wife is shorter and not fat; she doesn't find climbing easy. FURTHER CORROBORATION

[tallsop]

  Ergo climbing is easier if you are tall and fat. 

spoken like a true fat dwarf. surely NOBODY has the right to comment on this, as all opinons are inevetably bias. (no-one having the ability to be both tall and short (although tallies were once short - so maybe we  know better )

us tallies feel hard done by just as much as shorties, its just that we dont bitch about it so much - and dont gimmie all that shyzen about reachin through cramped up sequences cos its not actually very often that we can do that - if u'd tried bein tall for a bit u'd know. although my main climbin buddy is well shorter than me an he doesnt moan at all, he just tries really fucking hard and gets it done, he climbs some bloody hard stuff too.

my favorite tall excuse is the fact that (in general) our hands are bigger, which means the holds are smaller for us , that mingin hold right of the crack on play hard is a feckin jug for little people! 

[benpritch]

i did an interesting comparison with some other climbers the other night. one of them was taller, the other two were a fair bit shorter. we all put our chins on the lowest campus rung and reached as far as we could. all our reaches were comparable. therefore it seems to me that to utilise any extra reach gained from possessing giants legs etc you would need to be able to lock lower.

maybe we should post chin to tips measurements plus our height and ape index and make this into hard science

chin to tips (vertical) 28"

height 5'10''

ape 6'4"

[T_B]

more relevant is the pounds per square inch through ones finger tips 

[dave]

I know what you mean ben - i'm just over 6' but most of that height comes from long legs - so i can reach high from a set of low footholds, but can't lockoff further than normal cos the legs don't help, or span between very widely spaced holds particularly better than the next man, unless that next man is the Banks.

[Bonjoy]

There may be cases where extra long legs don’t aid reach, but there are plenty of cases where it does help e.g. stood on ok footholds reaching off an overhead hold to a much higher hold

[SA Chris]

So as i have said before the steeper and more "army" the climbing gets the less height becomes and advantage.

Wonder if the steepness vs reach advantage graph is a straight line or exponential?

[dave]

Wonder if the steepness vs reach advantage graph is a straight line or exponential?

i recon its log.

[Norton Sharley]

  Ergo climbing is easier if you are tall and fat. 

spoken like a true fat dwarf. surely NOBODY has the right to comment on this, as all opinons are inevetably bias. (no-one having the ability to be both tall and short (although tallies were once short - so maybe we  know better )

us tallies feel hard done by just as much as shorties, its just that we dont bitch about it so much - and dont gimmie all that shyzen about reachin through cramped up sequences cos its not actually very often that we can do that - if u'd tried bein tall for a bit u'd know. although my main climbin buddy is well shorter than me an he doesnt moan at all, he just tries really fucking hard and gets it done, he climbs some bloody hard stuff too.

my favorite tall excuse is the fact that (in general) our hands are bigger, which means the holds are smaller for us , that mingin hold right of the crack on play hard is a feckin jug for little people! 

Who's moaning?  I was simply proposing a comparison of Fatdoc and Jasper's, for example, relative stats, as a means to talk nonsense for a while.

Benpritch has nicely supplied some alternative nonsense, or not, with the fact that either he has very short arms, which he has not, or his short mates have very long arms relatively speaking.

Clearly we need several height dependancy charts to cater for different types of moves.  The extremes might be stood on footholds or for overhanging rock where the length of the legs is not important. 

These also relate to fear since, as a dwarf, one of my greatest fears onsighting grit is getting stood in a break and not being able to reach the next one.  Particularly if said break in which I have my feet has no gear in it as so often seems to be the case.

[Jaspersharpe]

I think this graph explains things more clearly.....

[SA Chris]

Wonder if the steepness vs reach advantage graph is a straight line or exponential?

i recon its log.

probably right.

[Fiend]

This thread reinforces my hatred of tall people. Tall people are bad enough but tall people playing the short person's excuse card are truly appalling.

Anyone know any good cramped lowball traverses??

[Dolly]

Anyone know any good cramped lowball traverses??

That bloody horrible thing at Burbage West - I'm only 5 11 but I'm like a bloody crab on it. Would be good for dwaarfs

[dave]

even banks looks like shaq on that thing. probably stretching the term "good" a bit thinly though.

[Jaspersharpe]

Tracking. If you do it the foolish sloper matching way instead of the sensible LANK method.

[iain]

This thread reinforces my hatred of tall people. Tall people are bad enough but tall people playing the short person's excuse card are truly appalling.

 

I read an interview with Ondra recently where he said that even though he's climbing harder grades faster than 3/4 years ago he's doesn't think he's gotten any stronger, just taller.

Climbing is an inherintly morpho activity. I'm just waiting for the body part transplant that can give me smaller hands and about 3 inches extra height, I'll be much better then   

[rodma]

i did an interesting comparison with some other climbers the other night. one of them was taller, the other two were a fair bit shorter. we all put our chins on the lowest campus rung and reached as far as we could. all our reaches were comparable. therefore it seems to me that to utilise any extra reach gained from possessing giants legs etc you would need to be able to lock lower.

maybe we should post chin to tips measurements plus our height and ape index and make this into hard science

chin to tips (vertical) 28"

height 5'10''

ape 6'4"

You've got a reeediculous ape index.

Will get some measurments though, this could be interesting................or not, actually def. not 

When you measured your reach with chin on rung, were your shoulders parallel to the ground or were you genuinely reaching as high as physically possible?

Oh, and can someone give me a leg up so that I can get my chin on the bottom rung please?