[stevie haston]

Jim;I am not being wierd but if you read some of the stuff here you might see that not living in lerida is no excuse. the basque region continully produces hords of good climbers, sport, trad,and mountain, despite having weather like north wales. Britain on the other hand has some fantastic sport, yes it does. Raven Tor, much maligned, is brill, some good lines, but lots of nails routes, hard bouldering too. Malham would be a top crag in spain!!!! Gordale is atmospheric and grand, top routes. Kilnsey is top, again a good crag anywhere in the world, with routes to go!!!Wales is ok, some reasonable lime,interesting slate. uk has brilliant climbing walls and a very interesting climbing scene, certainly better than france and spain.
8 at 8c
6  at 8c+
;;;
1 at 9a+
 still an easy two weeks for Ramon.
you know at least its positive its going up, SteviePs NorthCB, Skipton was(maybe still is) a great little spot, market town, lots of fighting after the pub with farmers, caving, fond memories of the grit, some good climbers and boulderes who helped me.Its snowing here havent been able to climb for a while, obviously it will get better, which admittedly is not really evident in uk. 

[Johnny Brown]

When did you last go to Raven tor Stevie? Its shit, looks comparable to a spanish crag on paper, but not in reality. The belgian lads said it reminded them of the shit crags they have to climb on at home.

Are the spanish crags piss wet most of the year? The uks lack of top sport climbers is entirely down to how uninspiring the climbing is.

[dave]

raven tor is so unispiring its rammed for the 8 or 9 months of the year that its mainly dry. do the spanish have the pinches wall? do they fuck. i pity them.

[Kingy]

Alex Honnold was full of praise for the mighty Tor. Davey G seemed to quite like it, so much so that he plans to come back and seige all of Steve's 9a's. I don't think he would bother with a shit crag somehow being that he can go anywhere in the world.

[stevie haston]

hey , hey , so I did overdo the sauce on Raven Tor. The Snore was very good in the old days for some (not me), it did them , served them, and created some standard very hard routes. Obviouxly my point was Brits have no excuse. Before in the pre-cambrian era of sport climbing, we had, first world champ, at the same time, a quarter of the very good sport climbers were brits, then we had , benidict, a very mean puller who really did something interesting a much better climber than WGGU.Its snowing, dodgy knee, too much running. The basque lads climb an awlful lot indoors. Brits had to travel befor to get some ticks, they can travel now(some do). I have to travel to get easy ticks(spain) but I dont care about easy ticks. All the improvement recently has come from a training mindset and being inspired, you dont need spain for this, it could be a dirty house in S7.  Or it could be some wood north of the border. Its very cheap to travel, its cheap to be thin(hard though), steep sport climbing is safe, anyway you know all this. Was Huffys the only peak based thing apart from Steve macs? Was it horrible and crimpy? Hubble looks really interesting, Mecca is a great line and a bit of bashing british history, amin from the car, could be worse you could live in Reims a still have to win the world title a few times. Good luck with everything, look forward to a great year coming, every body is going to do great things. I have to get on my board and train, but I have fear of my board so am stuck on this one, nightmare? Cant escape,,,,,

[abarro81]

As brilliant as undercut-sloper-jug is, it's not quite like having ceuse on your doorstep though is it.. In fact, I'd trade most of the limestone in the peak for just cascade and berlin sectors. Thinking about going to the tor certainly isn't what motivates me to get off my ass and train.

Anyway, I thought everyone knew the way to big sport numbers usually lies in going to europe for as long as possible? For me and a fair few of my mates, our best grades are almost all from european trips - imagine what would happen if you lived there. Ok, so living there and going on trips isn't comparible - you'd still have to get a job etc instead of climbing every day - but I'd hazard a guess that I'd be climbing a grade or two harder after a year living in a prime euro spot.. I was after 5 weeks in europe this summer.
Stu's point RE: mileage is particularaly relevant here - live in a good spot in europe and you might have 50 good, long 7as near you to go do to build up loads of time on rock and fitness in a little burst at the start of a season on routes.
Here you might have a few short dry ones, then another 10 alright ones 3 hours drive away.. not exactly brilliant for building the onsighting skills and becoming one with the rock.

[SA Chris]

Thanks Patrul

[north_country_boy]

Anyway, I thought everyone knew the way to big sport numbers usually lies in going to europe for as long as possible? For me and a fair few of my mates, our best grades are almost all from european trips - imagine what would happen if you lived there.

Very true, i've no doubt if I lived in Spain I would up my redpoint grade by maybe 2 grades. And my Onsight grade most definately would be consistently higher......Ive experienced this every time I've been abroad, Germany, France, Spain, Greece etc......

Are the spanish crags piss wet most of the year? The uks lack of top sport climbers is entirely down to how uninspiring the climbing is.

Don't agree with this, there is a lot of inspiring UK sport climbing, Malham and Kilnsey are world class crags, and as Stevie says would be popular in Spain or France etc....

The Groove at Malham? The Thumb at Kilnsey? you rarely get many better 'lines' even abroad.....and Supercool at Gordale is probably the best sport route i have tried anywhere!

The main issue is UK sport climbers have it very hard with conditions and the weather, keeping psyched for weekend trips up to malham to find your project is regularly wet is hard, in fact its f**king demotivating! Yes Spanish crags seep and its sometimes too hot/too cold, but I'd trade conditions any day of the week, not sure i'd necessarily swap Malham and Kilnsey though....

Uk sport climbing doesn't lend itself to Onsighting either mainly due to the lack of volume you can do at one crag.....

[Jim]

To summarize then:
to be a better climber you need to be a better sport climber?
to be a better sport climber you need to live in spain?

[Stu Littlefair]

To summarize then:
to be a better climber you need to be a better sport climber?
to be a better sport climber you need to live in spain?

Yes/No.

To be a better sport climber you need to want to be a better sport climber. Then you'll do the training needed to be a better sport climber. This is more likely to happen in Spain, but you don't need to live there.

[north_country_boy]

To summarize then:
to be a better climber you need to be a better sport climber?
to be a better sport climber you need to live in spain?

Erm, no....

- Sport climbing on Spanish limestone - not going to get you up Hubble

- To climb regularly with reliable conditions - move to Spain

- This will probably lead to better fitness/power endurance, more suited to continental limestone crags - probably lead to climbing harder

I think maybe you have confused the idea of 'better' with 'climbing harder' which is obviously not true is it.......

[Paz]

I've lost the track a bit - but going back a few pages, to those of you who think mileage is the answer (that worked for me last winter - just drop your grade so that you can do the hardest moves possible that you can send in a day)- do you reckon it's important to get that mileage outdoors rather than indoors?  I know A) loads of wall bunnies who probably do a right lot more moves per week than me, but who are frankly shocking outside, B) some who are very good indoors or on euro jugs who would walk all over me indoors anyday, but who I can still compete with (and occasionally beat) outside in the rain (or on nasty slabs Barrows - you punter ;-)), and there's C) a number of odd exception (who I'm bearing in mind as I gradually lose my `bum' status) who work full time, climb indoors most of the time but who are always pretty devastating outside when they hear the call.

Now clearly most of groups A and B may just be shit climbers, and group C may just be really fucking good climbers. 

I think your mileage has to be at a hard enough technical level combined with a lot of rock movement time, and that's what lots of sport routes in condition gives yo, but possibly not so fucking hard that all you do is spend all your time on the dog, on one route.  Just being a very good E5 or E6 climber and coming back to the pub and bragging about the 5c or 6a move you've just done, while being something a lot of us would like to be, is not going to get you better on its own in the long run.  And on indoor routes I guess the moves aren't that hard, but feel hard because you're pumped from having to make a clip every 2 feet.

[Jim]

To summarize then:
to be a better climber you need to be a better sport climber?
to be a better sport climber you need to live in spain?

Yes/No.

To be a better sport climber you need to want to be a better sport climber. Then you'll do the training needed to be a better sport climber. This is more likely to happen in Spain, but you don't need to live there.

Ok then, but all points basically add up to the fact that if you live in the uk your not going to be a world class sport climber unless you have some sort of inhuman motivation.

[r-man]

Not really that bothered about this from a patriotic perspective - it's great to hear about anybody doing amazing things in our little hobby. But it is interesting to see what different types of climbers different areas produce. The UK does gnarl.

Gaskins has to be the ultimate Brit ambassador - smallest holds, hardest moves. Nevermind climbing arm busting 100m pitches on beautiful rock. Surely, if rock is that nice, it's got to be cheating.

Gaskins did his thing on the bits of rock people weren't meant to climb on. If the legends are to be believed, the rest of world is a long way from reaching the standards set by Shadow Play, Violent New Breed (Stevie, there is another 9a+ in the UK!) and the rest. When will the world catch up?

The Spanish do stamina well, and that's great, but I personally think it's brilliant that many of the younger generation of Brits currently idolise JG's abilities and place his achievements at the pinnacle of physical difficulty. That's what British climbing should be about - proper hard. No messing.

I look forward to seeing who will take the torch, and use it to light up their momentous ascent in a grotty hole with a two move wonder that no one else will ever repeat.

[Baron]

Experience experience experience.

[stevie haston]

As young Bulger will get hardly any attention for doing something that is fairly note worthy, Id just like to say keep it up and I kook forward to your first 9. Great to hear you are so excited and having such a great time. Stevie

[c.j.d.]

Wow, seems like there is some psyche coming out of all this - keep it coming, and we'll rename the thread 'British Psyche - Shit or not Shit'.  The answer is 'Not Shit' I think...

[Monolith]

Not really that bothered about this from a patriotic perspective - it's great to hear about anybody doing amazing things in our little hobby. But it is interesting to see what different types of climbers different areas produce. The UK does gnarl.

Gaskins has to be the ultimate Brit ambassador - smallest holds, hardest moves. Nevermind climbing arm busting 100m pitches on beautiful rock. Surely, if rock is that nice, it's got to be cheating.

Gaskins did his thing on the bits of rock people weren't meant to climb on. If the legends are to be believed, the rest of world is a long way from reaching the standards set by Shadow Play, Violent New Breed (Stevie, there is another 9a+ in the UK!) and the rest. When will the world catch up?

The Spanish do stamina well, and that's great, but I personally think it's brilliant that many of the younger generation of Brits currently idolise JG's abilities and place his achievements at the pinnacle of physical difficulty. That's what British climbing should be about - proper hard. No messing.

I look forward to seeing who will take the torch, and use it to light up their momentous ascent in a grotty hole with a two move wonder that no one else will ever repeat.

You write a wonderful polemic Robin.

Stevie, it's somewhat presumptuous of me here but I imagine that you're probably not the most ardent of social network users; to which extent you will have missed out on the Mr. Gaskins appreciation society. I think I speak for a significant number when I say that we really have been host to the greatest (low frequency, high intensity) climber of all time. And if I had

a)The ability to drive and a car
b)Anywhere near the ability
c)Access to a hedge fund for petrol requirements

then I'd be attempting Violent New Breed daily. I personally could not think of a more motivating challenge.

[Neil F]

then I'd be attempting Violent New Breed daily. I personally could not think of a more motivating challenge.

Perhaps it is because I last bouldered in 1983 that I sometimes find myself unable to properly relate to this prevalent sub-culture?  But routes – well they are my bag!

Of course this is a free world, and my view is no more valid or valuable than Monolith’s – indeed in this forum it will be probably carry much less weight.

But I must confess, even if I was 20x stronger (or is it 200x?), then I still wouldn’t be attempting Violent New Breed on a daily basis.  In fact I wouldn’t be attempting it at all, because for me, I could not think of a less motivating challenge! (Though I have climbed on the crag, and the setting is quite beautiful).

Give me a sustained, 40m wall of perfect Spanish limestone any day.

Good job we’re a broad church…..

Neil

[BenF]

Of course this is a free world, and my view is no more valid or valuable than Monolith’s – indeed in this forum it will be probably carry much less weight.

Nah, no-one listens to Monolith.      His idea of a great line usually includes rules and eliminates the decent holds in favour of some dirty, dirty crimps. 

PS: I love you really Tom.  Do you want a lift up to try Violent New Breed then?

[grimer]

I'm afraid I'm in the NeilF / Johnny Brown camp when it comes to worshipping Gaskins' idols. If VNB was a F7a+ instead of 9a+, and it was in Cheedale, i doubt i would bother trying it. I realise this might be considered blasphemy.

[BenF]

I'm afraid I'm in the NeilF / Johnny Brown camp when it comes to worshipping Gaskins' idols.

You'll be saying that Woodwell isn't the best crag in the UK next...

[Monolith]

It's an open church Grimer. You are forgiven for your sins.

Neil - It isn't a case of privilege of opinion. Your perspective is equally as justifiable as mine or the next person's and I can see why you wouldn't be inspired by VNB.

I love you also Ben but you'd do better off giving that lift to Mr Danny Cattell; an individual who has invested more time than most in attempting a repeat of a specific problem.

Perhaps there are a few people out there with the right genetics, training ethic and corresponding motivation levels to wage themselves against this legacy? I can't say I can name many but to anyone of a similar mindset as myself, a repeat of one or more of these problems would surely be a career aspiration?

[moose]

Gaskins did his thing on the bits of rock people weren't meant to climb on. If the legends are to be believed, the rest of world is a long way from reaching the standards set by Shadow Play, Violent New Breed (Stevie, there is another 9a+ in the UK!) and the rest. When will the world catch up?

Out of interest, have any climbers nominally capable of success ever actually tried any of the hardest Gaskins problems?  Has anyone of the stature of a Landman, Smith, Chris Davies, Moon (or even a migratory Graham) offered a considered opinion on their difficulty?  Has anyone with a few ft8b ticks to their credit looked at Il Pirata, VNB, Shadow Play etc and come away with bleeding fingers and a stunned expression? 

I only ask because I fear that Gaskins' self-effacing brilliance is such an attractive concept that my desire to believe is making too much of half-remembered hearsay.  What is the actual, recorded opinion of the truly learned: are his problems "merely" cutting edge, accurately graded V15s, or are they really the heinous entities that we all hope for?  The romantic in me desperately wants problems to exist that are so far beyond the present cutting-edge that only paradigm shifts, rather than gradual improvements, will provide the second ascents. 

I dream of a far-future gathering in a South Lakes pit where a lab-spawned spiderboy, surrounded by Ready Brek style glow, and trained since birth with a campus-board mounted on the maternal bosum, pulls on with such ferocity that the rock fuses under his fingers.... but is still found wanting by the past standards of the shiny headed master.  This desire for Gaskins-pr0n is not for any patriotic reasons, but because I feel that the knowledge and awareness of something special enhances all of our lives... and I still have designs on a W.W.G.D? t-shirt...

[dave]

i think most people blanket dismiss gaskins stuff as shit so it spares them having to try it. I've certianly never heard of anyone seriously trying the harder stuff. i mean katz and others have done isla de encanta but that must be a fair distane off the top gaskinisms now. you certinaly don't even see anyone really trying the brandenburg gate project either.

I think one person who would be the numbero one candidate for looking the fuck at gaskins creations is dave graham. at least he's know if they were ballpark for v15s. if he does come back to the U of K then someone should drive him up there to try em. I volunteer cofe to drive.