[n_man]

britain has talent which we waste

In spades and not just at climbing. If it isn't football it isn't sport. Or thats what it seems like from the media.

[Paul B]

The british team still seem to produce some good younguns and then something goes wrong, inspiration , hard training and reward would seem to be called for.

I'd question this slightly, having just witnessed a team training session in the flesh I'm pretty certain that the success and performance of everyone involved is down to their own efforts and nothing else.

[shark]

then often the net and the wicked whispers mean you don't want to publicly try something for not being seen as lying, or someone saying that 'i did it when i was 6 with my eyes closed' and having your efforts belittled. if your not european champion or top of your game then its not a good effort. then where's the incentive to try? why try something if your going to get a public slating?

Name a sport that doesnt have detractors. The French press accused Lance Armstrong of having a drug advantage because he went through chemotherapy. If the incentive to try is purely for recognition and plaudits rather than internally driven then, yes, you are on a hiding to nothing if you are anything other than the best, which most aren't. Alternatively the competitive might think - I'll show the fuckers.

[stevie haston]

Thanks katy, sorry I got the wrong end of the stick. There are some good people working with the kids in North wales, small comunities with lots of bad and not much to do, isnt a good thing for kids but at least they live in one of the most fantastic places in britain, in that they are lucky. Kids inspire me a lot sometimes, the Catrell when they were nippers really gave me a kick.Stay positive and good luck, Stevie.

[Houdini]

... the Catrell when they were nippers really gave me a kick ...

Damn rodents.  Sounds savage; hope you disinfected the region afterwards.

[Tommy]

and then, living in a tiny community its easy to feel like other peoples efforts aren't spoken about because they aren't in vogue, anyone heard of ioan doyle, dan mcmanus, or a 14year old lad called callum who onsighted a bunch of e6's this year?you weren't in vogue but you are incredibly outspoken and therefore get attention. maybe we need proper reporters in mags who write about everyone not just the guys they belay?

britain has talent which we waste

Hi Katy, if it makes any difference I know about the achievements of both Callum and Ioan. Neither surprise me of their achievements as they're both so psyched! Ioan might even have got into one of the british teams if he didn't insist on turning round and waving at his mum every 30 secs on his qualifiers!

I hope they keep it up and keep pushing.

[Pantontino]

and then, living in a tiny community its easy to feel like other peoples efforts aren't spoken about because they aren't in vogue, anyone heard of ioan doyle, dan mcmanus, or a 14year old lad called callum who onsighted a bunch of e6's this year?you weren't in vogue but you are incredibly outspoken and therefore get attention. maybe we need proper reporters in mags who write about everyone not just the guys they belay?

Presumably this last point is a dig at me (and my N Wales scene reports for Climber mag)? For the record, I spend a lot of time reporting what Caff and Pete, Neil Dickson, Jack Geldard etc do in North Wales simply because they are climbing harder than anybody else. Others such as Jon Ratcliffe, Ian Lloyd-Jones get coverage because they are prolific new routers.

If you're not doing significant first ascents, climbing E7 ground up/on sight or doing hard headpoints you are unlikely to get coverage from any magazine. Ioan always contacts me if he does any significant bouldering ascents, are there other route ascents that he hasn't mentioned?

As for the N Wales scene being cliquey or exclusive - I don't get this at all. Things are a lot friendlier and cohesive here than any other British climbing scene I've encountered.

[Monolith]

As for the N Wales scene being cliquey or exclusive - I don't get this at all. Things are a lot friendlier and cohesive here than any other British climbing scene I've encountered.

Seconded.

[katy]

and then, living in a tiny community its easy to feel like other peoples efforts aren't spoken about because they aren't in vogue, anyone heard of ioan doyle, dan mcmanus, or a 14year old lad called callum who onsighted a bunch of e6's this year?you weren't in vogue but you are incredibly outspoken and therefore get attention. maybe we need proper reporters in mags who write about everyone not just the guys they belay?

If you're not doing significant first ascents, climbing E7 ground up/on sight or doing hard headpoints you are unlikely to get coverage from any magazine. Ioan always contacts me if he does any significant bouldering ascents, are there other route ascents that he hasn't mentioned?

Not as much of a dig at you but others who do reporting too. Ioan did his first e7 onsight this year and hard e6's onsight at 14 is definately worth a mention.

And the scene can be cliquey, although i wasn't saying necessarily that. But if your in 'fashion' from a reporting sense then your efforts are worth more than others. Or that how it seems to the mortals.

[Paul B]

I think its been pointed out before; people will get the coverage they seek. If people don't tell people what they've done then its likely that nobody will hear of it.

[Monolith]

Bump.

I'm far more intrigued to hear about modest secret beasts than I am interested in seeing the same old staple crop of individuals in the magazines. Isn't that why we all revere the G so much?

[Jaspersharpe]

No that's because he climbed harder stuff than anyone else. I agree though.

Paul is spot on.

[katy]

Ah I'm digging a hole for myself........

So far i know Ioans headpoints have been ignored. What should he do?

[Pantontino]

Not as much of a dig at you but others who do reporting too. Ioan did his first e7 onsight this year and hard e6's onsight at 14 is definately worth a mention.

And the scene can be cliquey, although I wasn't saying necessarily that. But if your in 'fashion' from a reporting sense then your efforts are worth more than others. Or that how it seems to the mortals.

Onsighting A Wreath of Deadly Nightshade is a good effort, but opinion is divided to whether it is E7. It's gone in the new guide as a split grade E6/7. 

Headpointing Gravediggers (F7c R or 'E7') and Totally Wired 9 (F7b+ R/X or 'E8') - also good efforts, but Ioan should be letting people like me (and Jack Geldard) know. (I only knew about the former, and didn't view it as being that newsworthy.)

I understand Callum onsighted The Cad and Rainbow of Recalcitrance - a fine effort at that age!

As for the in 'fashion' comment, I think that is unwarranted. The only reason people like Pete, Caff get talked about so much is because they are climbing so well. Pete seems to be going from strength to strength. Never mind the routes, he's done 1 Font 8a and 2 Font 8a+s in the last few weeks (and that's not Swiss holiday ticks, these are hardcore Welsh problems!).

[Fiend]

So far i know Ioans headpoints have been ignored. What should he do?

Give up headpointing obviously. I'm not sure there's a small enough violin to capture my concern about someone not being recognised for headpointing sub-cutting edge routes, even as a kid.

The onsighting on the other hand, a good effort. That must be pushing some limits at his age. Although are there any hard E6s in Wales apart from Strawberries

P.S. Yes I've heard of Ioan before, several times, on UKC. The other two names you mentioned are vaguely familiar too.

[katy]

Not as much of a dig at you but others who do reporting too. Ioan did his first e7 onsight this year and hard e6's onsight at 14 is definately worth a mention.

And the scene can be cliquey, although I wasn't saying necessarily that. But if your in 'fashion' from a reporting sense then your efforts are worth more than others. Or that how it seems to the mortals.

Onsighting A Wreath of Deadly Nightshade is a good effort, but opinion is divided to whether it is E7. It's gone in the new guide as a split grade E6/7. 

Headpointing Gravediggers (F7c R or 'E7') and Totally Wired 9 (F7b+ R/X or 'E8') - also good efforts, but Ioan should be letting people like me (and Jack Geldard) know. (I only knew about the former, and didn't view it as being that newsworthy.)

I understand Callum onsighted The Cad and Rainbow of Recalcitrance - a fine effort at that age!

As for the in 'fashion' comment, I think that is unwarranted. The only reason people like Pete, Caff get talked about so much is because they are climbing so well. Pete seems to be going from strength to strength. Never mind the routes, he's done 1 Font 8a and 2 Font 8a+s in the last few weeks (and that's not Swiss holiday ticks, these are hardcore Welsh problems!).

I'm definately not having a go at caff or pete. they earn every route, boulder they do and its awesome what they do.

But if you know what routes iow's done, and callum, why no mention of them?

[Pantontino]

Although are there any hard E6s in Wales apart from Strawberries

Beginner's Mind is a pretty tricky E6 - I seem to recall it being a popular 'E8' headpoint at one point.

[butters]

But if you know what routes iow's done, and callum, why no mention of them?

Because they are fine efforts but not newsworthy is what I gleaned from Pantontino's reply but maybe am I missing something here?

bluebrad

[Pantontino]

I'm definately not having a go at caff or pete. they earn every route, boulder they do and its awesome what they do.

But if you know what routes iow's done, and callum, why no mention of them?

I didn't know about Callum's E6s until recently, same goes for Ioan's hp of Totally Wired 9. They both deserve a mention, however a ground up ascent of the latter would be significantly more newsworthy. Not that I'm advocating such a thing - I belayed Tim on the first ascent of this and am all to aware of the potential consequences of failure, should the gear rip. I guess that is why it has a mooted E8 grade for the ground up ascent.

I probably wouldn't have reported an onsight of A Wreath..., unless in passing after reference to something more significant.

[T_B]

Although are there any hard E6s in Wales apart from Strawberries

Beginner's Mind is a pretty tricky E6 - I seem to recall it being a popular 'E8' headpoint at one point.

You have beginners mind at E7 in this month's column...

I can see reading about the Robbins on-sighting the glue machine - a bog standard E6 - might get Katy and her young friends bristling. This is, after all, a fairly impressive tick list for the year by anyone's standards:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.html?id=27980

BTW for the nu guidebook - I think it's TheThreacherous Underfoot not, A Treacherous Underfoot. I.e. like an animal!

[katy]

The point is......(take deep breath)

To be competitive on a world scale, you need money from sponsers to take long trips to work things. they need to be able to have you reported enough to make this viable therefore you need lots of shiny pictures and articles. which is where you need nice people to take photo's of you and people to report things. to be fair Si, you've definately done your bit reporting Ioan's stuff previously.

and yeah i'm being a defensive girlfriend, but i still think at 18 he's had a good year, it is newsworthy, and he has a lot of potential which hsould be encouraged by the media.

[David A]

To be competitive on a world scale, you need money from sponsors to take long trips to work things. they need to be able to have you reported enough to make this viable therefore you need lots of shiny pictures and articles ...

and yeah I'm being a defensive girlfriend, but i still think at 18 he's had a good year ...

Am I reading this correctly ... the young fella (or at least girlfriend displaying righteous indignation on his behalf) is a bit jarred off no one is stepping forward with a plane ticket and a few bob for a trip to show the world what he can do?

... and after all the work he put in!! a scandal surely ?

The climbing community and it's media wing is small and incestuous no doubt about it but there is a lot to be said for getting on with it and letting the forums and two bit magazines do their stuff. Climbing for the glory of a centre page spread in "grimpeur" and the avalanche of free footwear that follows ain't the way to play it surely?

[Pantontino]

Although are there any hard E6s in Wales apart from Strawberries

Beginner's Mind is a pretty tricky E6 - I seem to recall it being a popular 'E8' headpoint at one point.

You have beginners mind at E7 in this month's column...

I can see reading about the Robbins on-sighting the glue machine - a bog standard E6 - might get Katy and her young friends bristling. This is, after all, a fairly impressive tick list for the year by anyone's standards:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.html?id=27980

BTW for the nu guidebook - I think it's TheThreacherous Underfoot not, A Treacherous Underfoot. I.e. like an animal!

Phew, there's no flies on you is there Tom!

The ref to Disillusioned was only made at the end of a long list of what I'm sure even you would begrudgingly admit is (not just a 'good' year, but) an exceptional couple of months (during which it rained most days). Context is important is it not?

Ioan is clearly a very talented climber with a great future ahead of him, and perhaps (from the perspective of encouraging young talent) I should have given him a bit more coverage this year. I guess I've applied a too rigid cut off point for reporting.

You are of course correct about 'The' Treacherous Underfoot - a common mistake, which I let slip through the editorial net. (In my defense I have been somewhat distracted by a certain head twisting guidebook job, but that is in the bag now so hopefully you won't find it so easy to trip me up in future.)

[T_B]

The point is......(take deep breath)

To be competitive on a world scale, you need money from sponsers to take long trips to work things. they need to be able to have you reported enough to make this viable therefore you need lots of shiny pictures and articles. which is where you need nice people to take photo's of you and people to report things. to be fair Si, you've definately done your bit reporting Ioan's stuff previously.

and yeah i'm being a defensive girlfriend, but i still think at 18 he's had a good year, it is newsworthy, and he has a lot of potential which hsould be encouraged by the media.

Ever heard of Stuart Cameron or Rich Simpson?

No matter how worthy your boyfriend's climbing achievements are, there isn't any money available in the UK to pay people to climb, and there's going to be even less in the next couple of years as marketing budgets get reined it and companies go bust. That's the harsh reality.

It might be more realistic for your boyfriend to get a decent job whilst training hard, then take some time out to set the world on fire?

[Jaspersharpe]

The point is......(take deep breath)

To be competitive on a world scale, you need money from sponsers to take long trips to work things.

I can see why it rankles but to put things in perspective, when I was 18 I'd redpointed 8b (and very nearly 8c), done the FA's up to 8a, done Font 8A, flashed Font 7C, got to the 1/4 final of a World Cup leading comp, won the first Foundry bouldering league, onsighted E5 etc etc and all I ever got sponsorship wise was a few pairs of shoes. This was 16 years ago so the grades were a little nearer the cutting edge than they look now. 

To put things further into perspective my achievements were probably the least of four 18 year olds at that time.
Malc had just flashed 8a+, done the second ascent of the hardest route in the world (8c+) and was crushing bouldering comps left right & centre. He did at least get some harnesses and ropes too.  Vickers was British leading champion and one of the best trad and sport onsight climbers in the country, likewise. Stuart was scaring people shitless with his raw power and getting a pretty amazing ticklist together, likewise.

I'm not bellitling your fella's achievements one bit. He's had a pretty amazing year. Just pointing out that you can never expect to get anything financially from climbing in this country. If you do it's a bonus rather than a right. It probably frustrates you (and him) that there are climbers he sees who seem to be getting more from the sport than their achievements deserve. This too has always been the case as self promotion is a huge factor in this game.

And everything that Tom just said.