[Stu Littlefair]

Have endless miles of amazing steep limestone crags and a fantasitc climate? 

I think yes to the first, and no to the second. Places like the Basque have weather which is wetter than ours if anything, and a higher concentration of beasts than anywhere I've ever climbed. They do have lots of amazing steep crags.

I think if we had crags like Oliana, Santa Linya, Tres Ponts, Baltzola, Tarn etc, people would be much more psyched to get very fit. Instead I guess people feel that having the stamina to climb 40m 8c+'s is not that important compared to getting strong enough to 1-5-9 on the small edges. My own personal opinion is people are missing a trick here and the beastliness of the euro-wads is telling us we should be doing much much more volume in our climbing if we want to improve. I'd say that's true of all climbers unless you only boulder, and only on grit.

Stevie - I'd guess that something like 5 or 6 UK climbers have climbed 8c+ this year (Steve Mac, Dave Mac, Ryan Pasquill, Paul Smitton, Stew Watson, other wads?). For 8c I'm not sure the number would go up much, as it's mostly the same climbers, but definitely add Malcom. Looking at Jasper's numbers it seems quite clear that relatively speaking standards have gone backwards, in sport climbing at least.

[Johnny Brown]

we should be doing much much more volume in our climbing if we want to improve. I'd say that's true of all climbers unless you only boulder, and only on grit.

You're damn right we should Stu. But I think its as important on grit as it is anywhere else.

Anyone wanna go get a shovel with me?

[cofe]

shick-a-ding

[abarro81]

 My own personal opinion is people are missing a trick here and the beastliness of the euro-wads is telling us we should be doing much much more volume in our climbing if we want to improve. I'd say that's true of all climbers unless you only boulder, and only on grit.

  somewhat I know, but... what about those of us with disproportionate stamina in comparison to my strength? I tend to get on very well with 35m stamina plods in ceuse but struggle at the likes of the tor, or basic stuff indoors. What about stopping strong for power training and the like? Or do you mean I should just go and do even more capiliarisation at the end of my power sessions...

[stevie haston]

good morning, perhaps there are a few people who do think that british standards arnt what they should be. Stu mentioned power endurance or probable lac of it, this is interesting and possible. Oh and by the way thanks for the info about only 5 british climbers having done 8c+, a fairly shocking and sad predicament. Can we assume that these 8c+s were all bouldery or were 1 or 2 were power endurance. Do the brits get up their 8c+ by being good strong boulders and try to hang on till the chain or do we have more lads like McClure whos stammina and tecknique look to be of a very high order. Can some people share how these lads train?,  And if people dont wish to expose themselves to undeserved ridicule or critacism, contact me privatly. I would like to know either way but it is more useful to climbers as a group to share info. I notice that the Island has been repeated, by how shall  I put this, a colonial chappie.   
So in the last year, the brits have fielded 6 ish 8c climbers, 5  8C+ climber; 1 9a climber and 1  9a+ climber, In the same time we have fielded no 8c boulderes. Is that about right?
Went running in the the slush and sleet last night, Stevie.

[slackline]

Can some people share how these lads train?,  And if people dont wish to expose themselves to undeserved ridicule or critacism, contact me privatly. I would like to know either way but it is more useful to climbers as a group to share info.

Assuming there is convergence in training methods/styles/approaches utilised by top-end climbers (i.e. certain techniques work and are used by all top climbers) couldn't you get the same information from non-Brit climbers?

[stevie haston]

Dear Slack line , I would like to understand if or how the brits train, to add to my knowledge and perhaps other people on the board can benifit. Ramon if I understand every thing correctly, has in the last month or so done the equivalent of all the top 5 british bolt climbers put together, this is staggering; he is 5 foot 2 ins, no excuses. Stevie.

[JC]

I reckon that the lack of choice of hard routes to go for has something to do with it. This coupled with the fact that a lot of the hard routes have a relatively short time window in which you can get on them before they start seeping again! Maybe a lot of people can be put off by not wanting to put all the work in, just to see the route get wet again just before they do it. It could definately kill the motivation and force people to just go bouldering instead.
Again this comes down to our weather and very unpredictable conditions. Unlike most of the crags in Spain, which don't seep and have 3-star route after route.
I reckon that motivation has to be THE most important asset, for most of our routes anyway!!   

[slackline]

Cheers Stevie,

If you want to optimise training, surely going for what works best (Ramons training regime which has allowed him to outshine all top 5 british bolt climbers) would be preferable?

Obviously comparing this to those of Brits who aren't achieving as much as these euro-beasts would be beneficial, but without knowing half the equation (i.e. the secret to euro-beastliness) no comparison can be drawn and no real insight gained other than knowing how to get to near the top, but not quite there (a la your dismay at British Standards)?

I guess I'm questioning (again) why you are focusing on brits, but you've already answered that.

Apologies for the repetition,

slack (Neil)

[T_B]

It's so bleeding obviously to do with the lack of rock in the UK, rather than Brit's overall lack of motivation or potential.

I've been to plenty of French/Spanish crags and am pretty damn sure if they were in my back garden I'd be sport climbing at the very least a grade harder.  It's desperately difficult to train 'proper' stamina here in the UK.  I don't care what people say about how good Kilnsey and Malham are. Yes they are good, but they're not very good for training for the continent. I mean, people call stuff like Zoolook a stamina route when in reality you can sprint it and it's half the length of some of the pitches you get in France/Spain.  We don't have many pockets, nor many tufas to train on, nor nothing that's very steep really if you think about it.

Sure if you have mega motivation you can train it indoors, but it would take someone with an exceptionally high boredom threshold to pull that off.

So trying to compare how we train stamina with the Spanish who are at the crag all year round on 40 metre routes is a bit pointless isn't it?

We've been left behind in sport climbing terms, cos we don't have the facilities. End of story. Personally I think British climbers interested in 'competing' should focus on what we are good at and that is running in it out, on-sight on dodgy rock. We have a good resource in terms of loose, accessible rock.

Or you need to go and live somewhere like Lleida, surely?

[Kingy]

Spanish crags also seep, it is not just the Tor!

I agree with Stu that the weather in the Basque country is iffy in the winter as well, not just in the UK.

[Adam Lincoln]

In the same time we have fielded no 8c boulderes. Is that about right?

We fielded Ty. He is an 8c climber.

[Paul B]

Johhny G

[Jaspersharpe]

How hard is that Singularity thing that Clifford did? Oh and Kheops Assis still gets 8C....

[Andy W]

Apart from abroad, the pursuit of new hard problems in the UK seems scarce at the top end. After a quick scan of  http://eliteukbinventory.blogspot.com/  it seems that the hardest problems in the Peak, Yorkshire, N'land, Wales and Scotland were done by Moon, Smith, Gaskins all some years ago.

[stevie haston]

Still snowing, correct me if I am wrong, 8 climbers at 8c, 5 at 8c+, none at 9a, and 1 at 9a+, are we claiming Ty, can we? Stevie

[Paul B]

I may be completely wrong here but I think that a direct comparison between some euro bouldering grades and Brit Font Grades are completely daft.

[Jim]

What has sport climbing got to do with british standards? Do people come to britain to go sport climbing? No, why, because its shit

[account_inactive]

Looking at Lovejoy's list of dispair I've climbed consistently harder abroad than on my own doorstep

What was Dave Grahams ticklist again?

[Stubbs]

Looking at Lovejoy's list of dispair I've climbed consistently harder abroad than on my own doorstep

What was Dave Grahams ticklist again?

Has all the harder climbing abroad you've done been in between giving lectures on your gypsy lifestyle most nights - no? 

[andy popp]

We can add annother 8c+ wad, Tom Bolger today at Santa Linya according to his 8a.nu scorecard.

[Ru]

We can add annother 8c+ wad, Tom Bolger today at Santa Linya according to his 8a.nu scorecard.

I don't think it's much of a coincidence that Tom has managed this after moving to Spain. In fact is Smitton the only person to have climbed 8c+ in this country this year? (obviously Steve Mac too, but then he repeats an 8c+ almost every time he goes to the Tor so I'm not counting that.)

Put Santa Linya within an hour's drive of central England and you would get an 8c done by a Brit every other weekend of the year (after the first few months to build up the endurance on that style).

[Stu Littlefair]

We can add annother 8c+ wad, Tom Bolger today at Santa Linya according to his 8a.nu scorecard.

Psyched for Tom - good effort. That's two 8cs and and 8c+ this year. In answer to jim,my argument is that being better at sport climbing occurs because you are fitter and have more experience of movement over rock than us typical for a British wad.   The question, which remains open as far as I'm concerned is how much this type of training would improve trad and bouldering performance on British crags. The jury is still out on that one.

[north_country_boy]

Good effort by Tom!!  :thumbsup:Although it has been on the cards for a long time, all he needed, as people have said was the volume of rock/routes and weather to go with it...... Maybe we should all move to Lleida...... maybe then Stevie will be proud to be British

It suppose is no coincidence he lives in the south of France?.....whats wrong with Skipton Stevie?.......oh yeah, as i said above....

[Jim]

There probably is a link there Stu, but the glaringly obvious answer to the question: why hasn't Britain got loads of world class sport climbers; is that Britain hasn't got any world class sport climbing