[GCW]

I'd agree with the areas ting.
If Readza is OK with it, I can steal update his site in the wiki.

No rush.  Ideas people!

[abarro81]

Is it possible to make people 'tag' their comments or something so you can see who gave what info about a route?

[GCW]

It's logged in the page edit.

[GCW]

I've stuck the E6s up as per region.  See what the opinion is.
I'll see what Mr Read says about all this before doing anything else.

[Bonjoy]

Good work GCW.
I'd agree with keeping it focussed for the time being. Overambition has been the death of many a good internet idea. Keeping it grit and sandstone and >E5, at least for the moment seems the best way to go. Also agree with that it's quite important people should put their name to additions. 
Like Grimer says, the good thing about the original was the lack of ego in the descriptions. Keep it helpful and objective, with as much useful info as you have. So far I'd say UTG's are a good example of how to do it and Paz's (sorry Paz) of how not to do it.

[Bonjoy]

That's cool by me E6 6b ** Shining cliff - Friends 1 and 1.5 in the low break and two rp1s and a slider 1 in the peghole protect this frightener. Easy climbing really but a high slap from a pebble concentrate the mind.

I would definitely dispute that having checked out the same so-called "runner placements" for the E2 that goes leftwards, lol!! Bonjoy didn't you say this was hard possibly 6c??

The context of this was me justifying downgrading the E3 on the left to E2. You asked, how can the LH route only be E2 if the only slightly higher route to the right is E6. I still stand by the two grades. I do remember the higher (the good lower gear is too low to be of much help) gear being log. The comment on the tech grade was possibly bad memory or exageration for the sake of the point. Take Andy's word over mine, he's got a better memory (and logbook) than me.

[Bonjoy]

How do you add another row to the middle or the end of a table in the list?

[Bonjoy]

Just remembered something about the original list. The routes are ordered from easiest to hardest within a category. So anyone adding stuff should try to slot it in where they think most appropriate.

[andy popp]

I've sent Jon an email, I'll post when I get a response.

I had similar questions about formatting, it'll probably be a bit willy-nilly at first but hopefully some order will emerge.

[uptown]

That's cool by me E6 6b ** Shining cliff - Friends 1 and 1.5 in the low break and two rp1s and a slider 1 in the peghole protect this frightener. Easy climbing really but a high slap from a pebble concentrate the mind.

I would definitely dispute that having checked out the same so-called "runner placements" for the E2 that goes leftwards, lol!! Bonjoy didn't you say this was hard possibly 6c??

The context of this was me justifying downgrading the E3 on the left to E2. You asked, how can the LH route only be E2 if the only slightly higher route to the right is E6. I still stand by the two grades. I do remember the higher (the good lower gear is too low to be of much help) gear being log. The comment on the tech grade was possibly bad memory or exageration for the sake of the point. Take Andy's word over mine, he's got a better memory (and logbook) than me.

The E2 has great holds and relatively obvious climbing, wheres the E6 has poor holds and a slap for the crag top. The runners mentioned are very poor - you really wouldn't want to fall off it - I could rip them with a sharp tug. I remember Richie saying it was E5 climbing with E6 gear and positions.

[andy popp]

Just had the following from Jon. I think he makes some really good points/suggestions.

"Having the grit list as a wiki is a brilliant idea. How can I refuse in the face of such flattery!
 
There's a couple of suggestions I'd like to add, perhaps I should start a thread on the wiki?

(1) It would be good to acknowledge everyone who helped originally somewhere on the site.

(2) I'm a strong believer in complete transparency, and would put forward the suggestion that users should be identified somewhere with their full name. They are responsible for their entries -- I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from contributing, but I do think people should be (wo)man enough to stand by what they write in public. This might prevent anonymous entries which just slag off routes (after all they're all worthy, who are we to judge?) or grades or styles, whatever. This may not even be a problem; who knows?

(3) separating by region is a good idea; it ended up being a bit unwieldy everything lumped together

(4) definitely include sandstone -- honorary grit, isn't it? Similar route, makes sense.

(5) would it be possible to have a few extra fields for routes?
  - I think it would be good to start towards some consensus on how safe things are, perhaps on a new scale: Death, Crunch, Sprain, and Scratch ? Ability to vote would help, perhaps.

  - Also whether multiple pads turn it into a highball (e.g. the new international boulder problem Thumbalina).
  - Finally, some ability to comment on the best style ascended (rather than just "been on-sighted", would be useful to record the manner in which this was achieved, plundering Grimer's list would help?)

(6) It would be useful to decide some basic policies before everyone puts a load of effort in. Is move beta allowed? How much gear beta? Just the sizes of unusual pieces? (obviously, I have the market cornered for Rock'n'Roller sizes ...)



Cheers,

Jon."

[Palomides]

Nice to see the Gritlist getting a new lease of life, I always used to find it very inspiring when I was climbing a lot on gritstone.

Jon's points are all good, but especially about move beta. Describing whereabouts the crux move is isn't a big deal, but giving more detail than that could be.

I haven't really got a lot to add for the routes, except that I can confirm that this:

Don't Slip Now E5 6a? - Curbar
The worst landing ever, if you stuff this one up it's going to hurt a lot.

is painfully true, and that I am very lucky (I only broke 5 bones).

[grimer]

Surely the point of it is the beta. It's serving a purpose that the guidebook doesn't.

[Palomides]

Surely the point of it is the beta. It's serving a purpose that the guidebook doesn't.

Gear beta - yes.
French grade - yes.
Being told the sequence - not too much.

I've always viewed the gritlist as a collection of information designed to tempt people into getting on E5+ routes, rather than a howto.

[nik at work]

Maybe some kind of reveal button? I think the idea of all the "hard grit" routes (including sandstone) in one easy access list is brilliant. I remember back in the day me and Dan spent hours (days?) trying to collate the information to build an uber-tick-list. If such a resource could be online and regularly updated it would be amazing. It would be very useful to on-sighters as much as beta-flashers and headpointers. Obviously if climb-by-numbers instructions are included then the very purest onsight is blown, however if there was an option to get say opinions and description instead of beta and gear placements this wouldn't be a problem.

Would it then just be an online selective guidebook? Maybe, but also so much more. And it wouldn't stop me buying guidebooks, after all I can't take the laptop to the bog with me for a good read can I? Well actually I can but the wife just thinks I'm going for a wank then.....

[Graeme78]

Just a thought, but if your including Sandstone, does this mean Nesscliffe will be included. I have no real interest in the place it was just something that occurred to me.

[SA Chris]

If Nescliffe is in, then how 'bout North Yorkshire Moors? If yes, then how about Northumberland? etc.

[Bonjoy]

Like any wiki it'll be as inclusive/exclusive as peoples additions make it.

[Teaboy]

I really liked the way the Gritlist was (are we already talking about it in the past tense??) split by category rather than area, it was something different to the guides and also provided 3 graded lists per grade which is much better than one!

[Bonjoy]

Starting to get the hang of the editing now. Useful unobvious tip: right click on the end of previous entry to get ‘Add row’ option and use control+V to paste from word docs.
Have added some to E5 and E6. The ones I put on this thread plus Liquid Abs - E6 Black Rocks and Bad News For Slab Climbers - E5 Bauston Tor

[mark s]

jon me and andi were talking about this the other week.but decided against it as we dont/cant be arsed to go all over the place.we then mentioned doing a staffs hard grit list as between us we could russlte something up about most of the e5 plus routes.i set up a site but thats it.i'm not too good on comps so got bored with it.

anway back to bonjoy's topic

soul survivor,stoneydale quarry E5 6b
climb the square cut arete on the right but watch the rusty pegs(have been tested)good friends protect.f6c

[GCW]

If people preferred this could be done just as text rather than a table?  And splitting into seriousness groups etc is a possibility.

Thoughts on format greatly welcomed... Please!!!!!

[Steve R]

I'd certainly go along with the thinking of keeping the format based around safety category/route character rather than by area.  Having studied the grit list for hours over the past few years it's certainly been inspiring and probably got me to places and on routes I otherwise wouldn't have.  I reckon this is largely due to the format - it's different from a guide book.  It's cool to see routes from different areas getting compared in the same list, take pink pages for example...
As a lover of lists, french grades for trad routes (even short grit ones) and Readza's written steaze I hope this works out!

[Falling Down]

Palomides

My legs have often gone numb reading UKB on my Ipod touch whilst sat on the throne. I can imagine a not too distant future of Iphones and other devices actively used at the crag.

[Adam Lincoln]

I know there has been a lot of debate on this, for and against, and how it may or may not be applicable, but adding a suggested rough font grade or even french grade may add something......