[El Mocho]

Kevin the American managed it today (his second day on it) I think between us all about 20 falls were taken from the move to the pocket - the flake is bomber!

[matthew]

Good effort one and all. Especially good effort to Kevin the American!

[SA Chris]

Shipwreck? Shipshape.

Good Effort all round.

[AndiT]

Wow. That's brilliant!

[Paul B]

Wow. That's brilliant!

very impressive

[Sloper]

I think I saw the raiding party in the Outside cafe, if so all I can say is that stereotypes save a lot of time (I'm talkign about looking like climbers, not being loud and brash etc) and bloody good effort, i'm just waiting for the YDS grade....

[Andy F]

Most excellent dude. As they might possibly say. In a Bill/Ted voice. Possibly.

[Sloper]

You're showing your age.

(pot kettle etc)

off to construct a balsamic reduction, remember the 1980 new cooking init

[Adam Lincoln]

Effort! Was saying in the car this morning on the way over to Stanage that it would get done today. Mint conditions.
Noticed this pic on the web of actual ascent.

[AndiT]

Noticed this pic on UKC forums of actual ascent.

[nik at work]

Brilliant effort. Very impressed. Whats next???

[GCW]

So how long before it gets an onsight lead?
It's good to see people improving on previous styles though.

[butters]

A top effort and I must say that all this ground up climbing is very exciting and personally speaking is providing suitable amounts of "syke" for the grit stone season ahead.

Kevins "blog" is here for those of you who haven't found it yet. It makes for interesting reading though the way it is presented without the ability to go straight to a specific days posting is a minor irritant.

bluebrad

[Doylo]

Kevin the American managed it today (his second day on it) I think between us all about 20 falls were taken from the move to the pocket - the flake is bomber!

Brilliant! is this still regarded as e9 then? Just thinking about other trad routes with 8a climbing on that you can fall off and they get E8.

[Drew]

Effort to Kevin. I'm guessing Ben et al, aren't gonna be there today? Was a bit damp last night.

Just curious, how much gear was placed behind the flake? Did they do a Seb Grieve and fill it with 18 million pieces? Also, I'm trying to work out, the gear was placed on lead, and then left in (and clipped) for subsequent attempts, right?

Full respect to all who were trying tho. Still reckon that flake's gonna come off one day. That'll be major, major news when it does!

[butters]

Just curious, how much gear was placed behind the flake?

From the "blog" that I linked to:

"With Parthian Shot, you place four small stoppers behind an behind an expanding flake. All but one have either ripped or fallen out on various occasions."

Also, I'm trying to work out, the gear was placed on lead, and then left in (and clipped) for subsequent attempts, right?

The rest of the details are in there as well but I am feeling lazy and can't be bothered to C+P... 

bluebrad

[Paul B]

While this ascent was far from perfect, I am happy to have improved upon previous styles. The next step is a ground up ascent with all gear being placed on lead! Then, perhaps an onsight? Who knows!

[Drew]

 

I admit I didn't have much time to read it all before going to work in the morning, so thanks to my scan readers for the abridged version. Fucking fine effort whatever style chosen, and full respect to go at it ground up.

[Will Hunt]

This worries me a little. If Seb and the boys were so convinced that this flake was utter shit it must be pretty poor but is somehow taking all these falls. Think its important that people dont start to regard it as a super safe route and a great E9 to try and onsight/ground up unless you think you're really going to make it. That flake probs isnt going to last forever (going by the Hard Grit opinion of it, of course I have not seen it in the flesh) and when it does theres a good chance that somebody's going to be really fucked up or die. Be careful you wads.

[Paul B]

This worries me a little. If Seb and the boys were so convinced that this flake was utter shit it must be pretty poor but somehow taking all these falls. Think its important that people dont start to regard it as a super safe route and a great E9 to try and onsight/ground up unless you think you're really going to make it. That flake probs isnt going to last forever (going by the Hard Grit opinion of it, of course I have not seen it in the flesh) and when it does theres a good chance that somebody's going to be really fucked up or die. Be careful you wads.

I'm pretty sure seb makes reference to people not even having looked at the flake whilst still commenting?

[Will Hunt]

Then I bow to your superior knowledge of the flake. I was merely talking about the impression given by the main commentator of that section. Described as a "shipwreck of a flake" that nobody could believe held. Seems like a quantum leap in opinion to "bomber".

Just be careful is all 

[Fiend]

Risking cries of "well if you're not on it how can you speculate", I think Will has a point. The information available to the public about this flake is: It's dodgy. So it seems somewhat incongruous that people are taking so many big falls onto it. Either it's not dodgy and all is fine, or it is dodgy to some degree and these falls are testing that. Give the somewhat unpredictable and absolute nature of rock failure, one can see, based on what has been said about the flake, the potential for disaster there. It's not like lobbing off Equilibrium where the gear situation is mostly clear-cut.

I presume if the flake went it would totally fuck the route as well as someone's life?? Would there be - speculating here - any sense in stabilising it?? Like, say - injecting a thin glue into the back of the flake, or something like that??

[grimer]

Then I bow to your superior knowledge of the flake. I was merely talking about the impression given by the main commentator of that section. Described as a "shipwreck of a flake" that nobody could believe held.

may i point out that i had nor have no real knowledge of the flake whatsoever.

[T_B]

Risking cries of "well if you're not on it how can you speculate", I think Will has a point. The information available to the public about this flake is: It's dodgy. So it seems somewhat incongruous that people are taking so many big falls onto it. Either it's not dodgy and all is fine, or it is dodgy to some degree and these falls are testing that. Give the somewhat unpredictable and absolute nature of rock failure, one can see, based on what has been said about the flake, the potential for disaster there. It's not like lobbing off Equilibrium where the gear situation is mostly clear-cut.

I presume if the flake went it would totally fuck the route as well as someone's life?? Would there be - speculating here - any sense in stabilising it?? Like, say - injecting a thin glue into the back of the flake, or something like that??

 

the flake is bomber!

 

[Fiend]

 

Fair enough. All the public knows is what was said before, it's not our fault if that wasn't right.

Were it to be as dodgy as people said it was, I still think my idea is worth discussing.

[T_B]

Fair enough. All the public knows is what was said before, it's not our fault if that wasn't right.

Well Grimer hammed it up in his Hard Grit commentary depsite Seb stating to camera that he thought the gear (ergo the flake) was fine and that no-one bothered to actually have a look. He takes 5 falls to prove it.

Then Bentley/Sellers take a bunch of falls...

Then a big fattie falls off it a couple of weeks ago...

Then a bunch of wads take 20+ falls...

I think it's safe to say it aint gonna fall off any time soon!

[andy_e]

cumulative stress fracturing? in other words, each fall damaging it a bit, adding up until it can't take any more?

[Kingy]

It ain't a bolt with an exhaustively tested 3000 pound breaking strain (or whatever it is).

[Tom de Gay]

Good effort to all!

Took a couple of falls onto that flake many moons ago (after top rope), so thought I might offer my 2p.

It’s not bomber, but it is good enough. With three or four pieces behind the flake, one fell out when I climbed above it, another, which might have been a rock 3 in an apparently good placement, pulled straight through due to the flake flexing a little. I think the worry is not so much that the whole thing will fall off, but a bit of the edge might crumble. 

I don’t know if the fall from the final slab, after the rock over, has been tested. I guess this would load the gear more.

Regarding the grade, though you can fall off the crux, you have to do some tricky climbing to get to the flake (E6 6c?) and it’s serious afterwards. It’s not a clip-up. The route seemed a fair bit harder overall than any E8s I’ve tried (and harder than Meshuga), though a climber with endurance, ability to place gear, bigger balls and better looks might disagree.

[andy_e]

It ain't a bolt with an exhaustively tested 3000 pound breaking strain (or whatever it is).

Nope, but it's a brittle material like a bolt is. Except weaker.

[Kingy]

It ain't a bolt with an exhaustively tested 3000 pound breaking strain (or whatever it is).

Nope, but it's a brittle material like a bolt is. Except weaker.

A new, properly placed bolt should not fail under any circumstances, if it is placed in hard rock, no matter how big a fall is taken onto it. Gear placed in the flake will obviously be less strong than this, although by how much we can only guess.

[andy_e]

True. There's probably an equation in one of my text books that will allow me to work out how long the flake will last given a few estimations of stress put on it so far, thickness of flake, area pressure is being applied to, and strength of rock (anyone know the extent of diagenesis of the grit?)

[SA Chris]

Are you a geology student andi?

[Teaboy]

The flake may be bomber but Kevin Jorgeson says on his blog that of the four runners you place in the flake "all but one have either ripped or fallen out on various occassions". anyway its an amazing effort. The ascent of the year in the UK?

[grimer]

From reading the blog, did he top rope the first section on each attempt with a rope into pre-placed runners in the bomber flake? There's some mention of a flake near the direct start too, not sure what this is. Not complaining, just not clear from the blog.

[Jim]

The ascent of the year in the UK?

Did you miss the world hardest ever trad climb, E12?

[Jim]

Also after watching el mocho take a couple of falls on parthian, I hardly think he's put the flake under much strain, what with his massive bulk and everything. Cant comment on any one else's falls tho

[hongkongstuey]

From reading the blog, did he top rope the first section on each attempt with a rope into pre-placed runners in the bomber flake? There's some mention of a flake near the direct start too, not sure what this is. Not complaining, just not clear from the blog.

that's the impression I get - i.e it was yoyo'd (still ground up and a big improvement on headpointing)

Like on day 1, the gear was pre-placed and the rope clipped to the gear behind the flake. I
succeeded on my forth attempt of the day

[El Mocho]

It’s not bomber, but it is good enough.

I think my initial quote of "it's bomber" was a bit over excited but as Tom says it is good enough, I wasn't falling off because I was scared of the gear ripping but because it was hard. You do need to be pretty carefull with the gear you place, try to load it all equally, have a stretchy rope etc If things rip they tend to pull through rather than pull the whole flake off (nasty for the person concerned but I don't think it would destroy the route)

Just to clear up how things were done:

On friday a bit back me and Pete tried it ground up (placing gear on lead), Pete got to the flake first placed some gear and did a tiny fall off. I went up and placed some more gear and again "fell" off straight away. After that we left the rope clipped to the gear in the flake (we found the start relatively straight forward but didn't want to mess around with the 3rd rope out left on the arete every time, it was also a bit easier doing it yoyo but we wanted all the help we could) We fell off the crux move 3 times each that day.

To be honest the scariest thing was setting off on the route, once we got to the flake and checked the gear it was better than we expected. We only had pieces rip on one fall (my most wild slap)

I went back a few days later and relead the bottom and placed the gear on lead again (and fell off a few times again!) the Americans turned up. Kevin lead up to the flake once and from then on left it clipped as I was doing.

A few days later I went back. I got to the crag before the Americans (who had stayed longer the last time (no child care responsabilities) and had my gear from the flake) being a bit short on time I wanted to get climbing so absailed down to the flake (with a hat pulled over my eyes!) and tried to get some different gear in - only 1 piece went in, as I was stripping the rope the Americans arrived so I decided to ab down and place the same gear as from the other days.  Again I took a few falls but had to head home pretty early - I left my rope and gear in for Kevin who did it later that day.

Kevin never placed the gear on lead and only lead to the flake on the 1st day on it and technically the gear was placed from absail on the day he did it but only the same pieces in the same places as we (me and pete) had placed on lead.

In my mind the big step forward in style is not top roping or inspecting from absail, sure there are still improvements to do we just need Caff to come along and do it straight off!

[Ackbar]

What's the font grade for the crux move?

[grimer]

all brilliant stuff