[Sloper]

You seem to misunderstand the nature of free speech.

I am in no way saying that people shouldn't be allowed to make comments or images that offend, indeed I think that the application of s.5 POA is over the top as are other restrictions on free speech.

People are free to speak and I am free to comment on it, that's what's happening here.

As for your point about being an individuals we're all individuals (shut up at the back per monty python) but those who represent an organisation, when they speak are to a greater or lesser degree deemed to speak for that organisation.

The councillor has not been suspended from her position as a councillor, she's had her party membership suspended which is entirely different. 

As for conflating an elected Labour politician with 'Labour' I think its fair to say that that conflation has been broadly applied when the comments etc of individual conservative have been regarded as offensive and sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander and a wonderful source of campaigning.

Or are you suggesting that Labour politicians can say and do anything and it won't reflect on Labour unless it is created by Labour central office and released as an official release of party policy? If so dear god you're deluded.

[Oldmanmatt]

What's wrong with using historical images in advertising?

Or stock images.

Or manipulated images.


It might be a pathetic comparison, Tory and Nazi, but it is not wrong.
Tasteless, demeaning of the Holocaust and it's victims, and rather transparent; yes.
Wrong? No.

The manipulated photo is no more than an artistic representation, it's origin no more significant than if they'd commissioned a half Polish, half Guatemalan artist to design and entirely imagined scene.

Just a petty argument, a silly semantic battle, no more.

[lagerstarfish]

I can't believe that you two (slopesy and slackers) read each others posts, let alone reply to them

[petejh]

3.  Being a wife, mother etc are not political positions.  When I make crass and potentially offensive comments (yes, it has been known to happen) these do not reflect on the Conservative party because I'm not an elected official or paid spokesman etc.

Sloper your comments do reflect - via a few mental reflective surfaces - on the Conservative party. You might want to consider that next time you're playing the tory troll and posting your divisive left/right viewpoints. I.e. you frequently write posts passing comment on various people's actions/words/beliefs and you frequently choose to link them - unelected officials etc. - to a political ideology. Therefore it's simple logic to assume others will read your comments and do exactly the same to you vis-a-vis Conservative party.

[slackline]

The councillor has not been suspended from her position as a councillor, she's had her party membership suspended which is entirely different.

Apologies, but that is further evidence to support my assertion that you were wrong to say that her actions represent Labour, they don't and they are clearly distancing themselves, because fools like you insist on thinking they do.

As for conflating an elected Labour politician with 'Labour' I think its fair to say that that conflation has been broadly applied when the comments etc of individual conservative have been regarded as offensive and sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander and a wonderful source of campaigning.

Its childish to think tit-for-tat justifies continued petty bickering and cheap point scoring*.

"He did it to me so I should be able to do it to him" FFS most posters here left the playground behind a long time ago.  You seem so entrenched in this vein of "politics".  The vast majority of your posts here suggest this, although I'm pretty sure you do have more constructive insight to contribute to discussions, its just a shame you use the forums to kill 5 minutes having arguments.  It really detracts from having any sort of sensible discussion about politics which is supposed to be about running a country.

Or are you suggesting that Labour politicians can say and do anything and it won't reflect on Labour unless it is created by Labour central office and released as an official release of party policy? If so dear god you're deluded.

No, I'm saying I expected you to have the capacity to make that distinction yourself, but since you persist with your line of reasoning you clearly don't. Shame.


@Oldmanmatt : I don't really care for the source of the images, its the original assertion and continued insistence that this was in somehow representative of Labour or "the left".  Its not.


* Its one strategy for the Prisoners Dilemma but Game Theory has over the years derived a number of more succesful strategies.

[Sloper]

What's wrong with using historical images in advertising?

Or stock images.

Or manipulated images.


It might be a pathetic comparison, Tory and Nazi, but it is not wrong.
Tasteless, demeaning of the Holocaust and it's victims, and rather transparent; yes.
Wrong? No.

The manipulated photo is no more than an artistic representation, it's origin no more significant than if they'd commissioned a half Polish, half Guatemalan artist to design and entirely imagined scene.

Just a petty argument, a silly semantic battle, no more.

With the minimum amount of respect, fuck off and grow up.

[tomtom]

Probably worthy of da news rather than balls to fiend... A very good legal viewpoint of the Ched Evans case...

http://footylaw.co.uk/2015/01/06/ched-evans-sifting-facts-from-fiction/

[Oldmanmatt]

What's wrong with using historical images in advertising?

Or stock images.

Or manipulated images.


It might be a pathetic comparison, Tory and Nazi, but it is not wrong.
Tasteless, demeaning of the Holocaust and it's victims, and rather transparent; yes.
Wrong? No.

The manipulated photo is no more than an artistic representation, it's origin no more significant than if they'd commissioned a half Polish, half Guatemalan artist to design and entirely imagined scene.

Just a petty argument, a silly semantic battle, no more.

With the minimum amount of respect, fuck off and grow up.

I rest my case, your Honour.


😉

[Sloper]

If you genuinely think that the present government are genuinely comparable to the Nazis then you're a total waste of good skin and an oxygen thief.

[Stubbs]

Sloper your comments do reflect - via a few mental reflective surfaces - on the Conservative party. You might want to consider that next time you're playing the tory troll and posting your divisive left/right viewpoints. I.e. you frequently write posts passing comment on various people's actions/words/beliefs and you frequently choose to link them - unelected officials etc. - to a political ideology. Therefore it's simple logic to assume others will read your comments and do exactly the same to you vis-a-vis Conservative party.

 

[Oldmanmatt]

If you genuinely think that the present government are genuinely comparable to the Nazis then you're a total waste of good skin and an oxygen thief.

Perhaps you should re-read my post?
I believe I trashed the comparison and belittled the dispute over the source photo of the genuine Tory poster, and then I may have mentioned that the entire argument was some what petty (read: fucking trivial).

Have you, Senator Sloper McCarthy, begun to see Reds under every bed?

To be clear, there are genuine issues of immense importance to the people of these islands, that will affect their quality of daily life, education, employment, well being and even the very life span they may expect.

The square root of fuckall of these issues is addressed by the argument, the actions of idiot minor politicians, the sourcing of stock images for meaningless posters and ad campaigns.
Of course the actions of one clearly show the true nature of all and each extreme is so patently different from the other.
It's not like all extremists look the same is it?

[tomtom]

The woman on the right looks a bit like the wife :-/

[Sloper]

If you genuinely think that the present government are genuinely comparable to the Nazis then you're a total waste of good skin and an oxygen thief.

Perhaps you should re-read my post?
I believe I trashed the comparison and belittled the dispute over the source photo of the genuine Tory poster, and then I may have mentioned that the entire argument was some what petty (read: fucking trivial).

Have you, Senator Sloper McCarthy, begun to see Reds under every bed?

To be clear, there are genuine issues of immense importance to the people of these islands, that will affect their quality of daily life, education, employment, well being and even the very life span they may expect.

The square root of fuckall of these issues is addressed by the argument, the actions of idiot minor politicians, the sourcing of stock images for meaningless posters and ad campaigns.
Of course the actions of one clearly show the true nature of all and each extreme is so patently different from the other.
It's not like all extremists look the same is it?

Which bit of 'wrong? no' have I misunderstood?

[Oldmanmatt]

Most of it, I'd say...

Would it help if I rephrased to "not illegal"?


By your own example, almost any language, statement or insult is fair game, in your somewhat twisted political view; except where those statements contradict your cherished position.

I find it odd that someone of obvious intellect and education should ascribe so slavishly to the trite, meaningless, jingoistic aspect of politics.

But then, I'm a waste of good skin (perhaps it would be better employed wrapped around a bible? Or as a lampshade?) and an Oxygen thief (should I be inhaling Zyklon  B?).

Your temper does lead you down some odd roads.

Now, tell me why I should support the current Gov and how they benefit our society, because the fact that some prissy, public school, chinless wonder, is offended by the oldest and most inane comparison of the modern world, delivered by a minor politician of a different coloured flag, is about as fucking important as an ants' piss in the ocean.

That's my third offer of a chance to make an intelligent response, are you going for petulant again?

[Sloper]

Most of it, I'd say...

Would it help if I rephrased to "not illegal"?


By your own example, almost any language, statement or insult is fair game, in your somewhat twisted political view; except where those statements contradict your cherished position.

I find it odd that someone of obvious intellect and education should ascribe so slavishly to the trite, meaningless, jingoistic aspect of politics.

But then, I'm a waste of good skin (perhaps it would be better employed wrapped around a bible? Or as a lampshade?) and an Oxygen thief (should I be inhaling Zyklon  B?).

Your temper does lead you down some odd roads.

Now, tell me why I should support the current Gov and how they benefit our society, because the fact that some prissy, public school, chinless wonder, is offended by the oldest and most inane comparison of the modern world, delivered by a minor politician of a different coloured flag, is about as fucking important as an ants' piss in the ocean.

That's my third offer of a chance to make an intelligent response, are you going for petulant again?

No, it wouldn't help if you rewrote what you said and pretended that you meant 'illegal', that would eb the act of a coawrdly liar.

After all I'm not sure you'd want people to think that you're so fucking stupid as to confuse the two words. or maybe you would given the alternative.

Moving on.

Pretty much all statements are fair game, it's one of the consequences of free speech to speech fucking morons spout shit, it doesn't mean you have to bite your tongue and stay silent, or fail to respond.

I am sure that during your service you would have repeatedly hard the insults that I have used and to seek to use these to make reference to the holocaust is deeply regrettable, perhaps deliberate, do you think it's funny, you're just 'having a gas'? Or do you think that gas chambers are just so funny that you couldn't help yourself?

The reason why I told you to fuck off and grow up was that you said that the comparison 'was not wrong'. thereby inferring that the current government could properly be compared to the Nazis.

As to it being trite, cliched and old, do you think that I should also refrain from comments about us jews being money grabing, part of some global elite conspiring against the comment ma, drinking the blood of the new born at passover because all these are ancient libels too?

Like I said fuck off and grow up (and when you're in a hole stop digging).

 

[Oldmanmatt]

Most of it, I'd say...

Would it help if I rephrased to "not illegal"?


By your own example, almost any language, statement or insult is fair game, in your somewhat twisted political view; except where those statements contradict your cherished position.

I find it odd that someone of obvious intellect and education should ascribe so slavishly to the trite, meaningless, jingoistic aspect of politics.

But then, I'm a waste of good skin (perhaps it would be better employed wrapped around a bible? Or as a lampshade?) and an Oxygen thief (should I be inhaling Zyklon  B?).

Your temper does lead you down some odd roads.

Now, tell me why I should support the current Gov and how they benefit our society, because the fact that some prissy, public school, chinless wonder, is offended by the oldest and most inane comparison of the modern world, delivered by a minor politician of a different coloured flag, is about as fucking important as an ants' piss in the ocean.

That's my third offer of a chance to make an intelligent response, are you going for petulant again?

No, it wouldn't help if you rewrote what you said and pretended that you meant 'illegal', that would eb the act of a coawrdly liar.

After all I'm not sure you'd want people to think that you're so fucking stupid as to confuse the two words. or maybe you would given the alternative.

Moving on.

Pretty much all statements are fair game, it's one of the consequences of free speech to speech fucking morons spout shit, it doesn't mean you have to bite your tongue and stay silent, or fail to respond.

I am sure that during your service you would have repeatedly hard the insults that I have used and to seek to use these to make reference to the holocaust is deeply regrettable, perhaps deliberate, do you think it's funny, you're just 'having a gas'? Or do you think that gas chambers are just so funny that you couldn't help yourself?

The reason why I told you to fuck off and grow up was that you said that the comparison 'was not wrong'. thereby inferring that the current government could properly be compared to the Nazis.

As to it being trite, cliched and old, do you think that I should also refrain from comments about us jews being money grabing, part of some global elite conspiring against the comment ma, drinking the blood of the new born at passover because all these are ancient libels too?

Like I said fuck off and grow up (and when you're in a hole stop digging).

Ah, that will be wilfully petulant then...

Interestingly though, you have no compunction comparing/branding others as various types of communist/socialist/Trotskyite or even Soviet.

I think those groups actually have a worse record on human rights? Slaughtered far more?

Still, a simple, "I'm sorry, I misunderstood your post" would have sufficed.

Hate speech is hate speech.

Asking someone to die, calling them a waste of skin or an oxygen thief, because you THINK  they have a different political leaning to you is hate speech.

So far I have complemented your intellect and have yet to resort to the insults you bandy about.

You are wrong.

Is that clear enough?


I don't think my courage or fortitude is the matter of debate here? Equating the insults you levelled with those actions, actions which grew out of such speech, is perfectly justified. I believe I have, on many occasions heard such things said.

Usually they have been used to justify things you could barely imagine.


I have yet to find any of this amusing.

You are,  simply wrong.

[tomtom]

Meanwhile Fox News are well on their way to that Pulitzer prize...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/11/fox-news-steven-emerson-birmingham-muslims

[Duma]

Like I said fuck off and grow up (and when you're in a hole stop digging).

oh the irony.


well done OMM for rising above it

[Sloper]

Most of it, I'd say...

Would it help if I rephrased to "not illegal"?


By your own example, almost any language, statement or insult is fair game, in your somewhat twisted political view; except where those statements contradict your cherished position.

I find it odd that someone of obvious intellect and education should ascribe so slavishly to the trite, meaningless, jingoistic aspect of politics.

But then, I'm a waste of good skin (perhaps it would be better employed wrapped around a bible? Or as a lampshade?) and an Oxygen thief (should I be inhaling Zyklon  B?).

Your temper does lead you down some odd roads.

Now, tell me why I should support the current Gov and how they benefit our society, because the fact that some prissy, public school, chinless wonder, is offended by the oldest and most inane comparison of the modern world, delivered by a minor politician of a different coloured flag, is about as fucking important as an ants' piss in the ocean.

That's my third offer of a chance to make an intelligent response, are you going for petulant again?

No, it wouldn't help if you rewrote what you said and pretended that you meant 'illegal', that would eb the act of a coawrdly liar.

After all I'm not sure you'd want people to think that you're so fucking stupid as to confuse the two words. or maybe you would given the alternative.

Moving on.

Pretty much all statements are fair game, it's one of the consequences of free speech to speech fucking morons spout shit, it doesn't mean you have to bite your tongue and stay silent, or fail to respond.

I am sure that during your service you would have repeatedly hard the insults that I have used and to seek to use these to make reference to the holocaust is deeply regrettable, perhaps deliberate, do you think it's funny, you're just 'having a gas'? Or do you think that gas chambers are just so funny that you couldn't help yourself?

The reason why I told you to fuck off and grow up was that you said that the comparison 'was not wrong'. thereby inferring that the current government could properly be compared to the Nazis.

As to it being trite, cliched and old, do you think that I should also refrain from comments about us jews being money grabing, part of some global elite conspiring against the comment ma, drinking the blood of the new born at passover because all these are ancient libels too?

Like I said fuck off and grow up (and when you're in a hole stop digging).

Ah, that will be wilfully petulant then...

Interestingly though, you have no compunction comparing/branding others as various types of communist/socialist/Trotskyite or even Soviet.

I think those groups actually have a worse record on human rights? Slaughtered far more?

Still, a simple, "I'm sorry, I misunderstood your post" would have sufficed.

Hate speech is hate speech.

Asking someone to die, calling them a waste of skin or an oxygen thief, because you THINK  they have a different political leaning to you is hate speech.

So far I have complemented your intellect and have yet to resort to the insults you bandy about.

You are wrong.

Is that clear enough?


I don't think my courage or fortitude is the matter of debate here? Equating the insults you levelled with those actions, actions which grew out of such speech, is perfectly justified. I believe I have, on many occasions heard such things said.

Usually they have been used to justify things you could barely imagine.


I have yet to find any of this amusing.

You are,  simply wrong.

I don't think I've ever compared Labour to the Stalin's Soviet, Khemer Rouge or similar. 

Just for the record, do you think that the Government is comparable to the Nazis? If you do then my comments stand, if you have changed your view or prefer that we change the maning of your text then fine.

Your references to hate speech is simply make no sense: who are you saying is engaging in hate speech? 

I called you an oxygen thief etc because you said, in effect that the comparison between the government and the Nazis was 'not wrong'. 

I can however see that this is the diablogue of the deaf, but you may think it important to clarify what you intended to say vs what you actually did say.

[Oldmanmatt]

It is time for an emoticon.

 

Or two?

 
 

And...


I'm done.

[tomtom]

Anyway - that colourfully bespectacled twat from Corrie (the one who sold double glazing) has been booted out of Big Brother...

And I have toothache.

[tomtom]

AND... miraculously, I find my self agreeing with the PM...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/12/fox-news-expert-ridiculed-over-birmingham-is-totally-muslim-city-claims

[Sloper]

It is time for an emoticon.

 

Or two?

 
 

And...


I'm done.

Indeed, let's just have a beer in the future.

[Oldmanmatt]

AND... miraculously, I find my self agreeing with the PM...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/12/fox-news-expert-ridiculed-over-birmingham-is-totally-muslim-city-claims

"I choked on my porridge! "

Kudos to the PM for that one. I should imagine being described as an "Utter idiot" by a country's political Head of State does not further ones career as a pundit....

[Jaspersharpe]

Probably wont make much difference. Most Fox News viewers will have no idea who David Cameron is.