[Baron]

Interesting day at Almscliff this weekend having not really bouldered there before. Lots of people did Demon Wall Roof (V7?) etc. Saw none of them do Pebble Wall (V3?).

Is that normal?

[Bonjoy]

That sounds quite normal. Doesn't PW get V5?

[205Chris]

That sounds quite normal. Doesn't PW get V5?

I'm pretty sure it does. Not one of the easier V5s I've done either.

[Jim]

pebble wall is 9d.
demon wall roof is easy
I've only done one of these problems, hopefully going to put this right today

[(woz)]

DWR took me 2 goes on first visit to the cliff, Pebble wall took 5 sesions. nuff sed.

[Andy F]

There's alway's the fact that if you ping off PW with your foot on the heel/toe lock then you're in for one seriously busted ankle but DWR you can ping off all day.

[jfw]

ok i haven't done this - but i was advised to try with heel in the "heel cup" rather than toe fully jammed in - and successfully spent a day pinging off relatively unscathed

[tomtom]

Interesting day at Almscliff this weekend having not really bouldered there before. Lots of people did Demon Wall Roof (V7?) etc. Saw none of them do Pebble Wall (V3?).

Is that normal?

Yup... DWR is low, can be (fairly) easily worked without hurting yourself...
Pebble wall crux is much higher, and also contains variations on a toe/heel lock and hand jam (sometimes next to each other) which can leave you with the feeling that if you fall you might leave your ankle in the problem...

[Fiend]

I've done Pebble Wall (tricky to work out, easy with the knack), but I haven't done Demon Wall Roof. If that helps.

[uptown]

Is that normal?

Pebble wall requires technique and gritstone knack.
DWR requires big guns but little else. Try doing pw footless! Point proved.

[dave]

lets face it DWR is pretty basic and most indoor bouldering prepares you pretty well for it and its easy to work. On the other hand the vertical smear standup outpointing heel-scoop beta combined with reverse fingerhoisting on pebble snags ain't exactly straightforward.

anyone like fiend who's done PW but no DWR are either blatantly underacheiveing on steep stuff or not tried it properly! fiend i guarantee you can do that problem with no bother.

[tlr]

I'm with Fiend. Did Pebble Wall OK, and the harder version to the right, haven't done DWR. I am utterly rubbish on crimps though.

V5 and V7 seemed reasonable to me.

[Pantontino]

6c and 7a I'd say.

I once really hurt my heal on Pebble Wall; slipped off unexpectedly and landed with my heel bone crunching on an exposed rock (this was pre-pads). Hobbled round for a whole winter. It really ached on cold mornings and I probably should have got it x-rayed. I also once fell flat on my back from DWR (both hands ripped from the lip), luckily I'd had the sense to lay one of those lovely bouldering pads underneath it and got away with winding myself and looking stupid.

Rock climbing - I tell ya kid, it's a dangerous game!

[tomtom]

lets face it DWR is pretty basic and most indoor bouldering prepares you pretty well for it and its easy to work. On the other hand the vertical smear standup outpointing heel-scoop beta combined with reverse fingerhoisting on pebble snags ain't exactly straightforward.

anyone like fiend who's done PW but no DWR are either blatantly underacheiveing on steep stuff or not tried it properly! fiend i guarantee you can do that problem with no bother.

Hmm, not sure I'd entirely agree.. if you were very strong and love teeny crimpy things, then DWR can be powered up. But for the not so superhuman, DWR requires alot of ingenuity and cunning footwork.. I think I've seen at least 5 different variations of how to do it, and thats not including nuances like which hand when etc.. which can make a difference.. Cruxifix traverse (low) has some similarities to DWR in that it can be thugged across (in wellys as I saw someone the other week) but for the less strong it can be done with some cunning toe hooking..
IMHO, DWR and Pebble wall both require a fair bit of 'knack'...

DWR does benefit from being repeated more times, so I think theres more beta/people on it & it seems to be on quite a few people warm up circuit...

[SA Chris]

Like fiend and co, I have done PW, but not DWR. Spent a fair bit of time trying both, most of the time with duff beta. I do freely admit to being more of a techy nacky type climber, and being weak. I think HK Stu gave me the beta that finally worked - definitely toe in the cup, not heel was what made it work for me. For about 6 months I then had it wired as part if my regular circuit and could do it confidently without a spotter ( I don't think I ever used a mat on either, or maybe HK Stu's once or twice). Every time I have been back since i have been shut down.

[Kingy]

Here's my 2 penneth

Pebble Wall requires technique but little power and a sizeable helping of finger strength

Demon Wall requires power but little technique.

I did Pebble Wall before doing Demon wall as I found DW really strenuous and could not do it with my level of strength at the time (bouldering around V6/7a). I think the grades of V5 and V7 are fair as you can unlock the beta for PW by bagging a local and do it with your existing level of strength if you boulder V5. However, no amount of trying or asking a local for beta/ technique will get you up DWR if you don't boulder above V5 as you won't be strong enough.

This assumes reasonable levels of technique gained from climbing outside regularly. Obviously the situation will be different for the indoor boulderer who does little outside bouldering and this analysis will get a little fucked up, to use the technical term.  

[Fiend]

I think a fair factor is that DWR is overall a harder problem than PW...

Anyway I entirely agree with what Kingy posted so don't have to repeat it myself.

I'd like to give DWR a go when I'm uninjured, it seems pretty cool from a very brief play on it.

[SA Chris]

I also think DWR is something you can get under and play about on and work the moves, hence the crowds, whereas you can only have a couple of attempts on PW before fingertips (and in my case right wrist) get sore and you sack it off.

[Johnny Brown]

I did Pebble wall very quickly, DWR took me a few visits. PW is alot easier, you can do it without rockboots or the pebbles. I can't even miss holds on DWR.

[Norton Sharley]

DWR requires power and is easier if you are tall

PW requires technical ability and committment   

Not hard to work out why PW gets done less then is it? 

[Johnny Brown]

Climbers are getting taller?

[Norton Sharley]

or the ground is getting further away

[Idol eyes]

Pebble walls been done sans "digits" too!

[lagerstarfish]

Pebble walls been done sans "digits" too!

That's a typo, Shirley. He means "sans midgets".

[SA Chris]

Pebble walls been done sans "digits" too!

You mean by Dave Musgrove Snr? Not seen it, but heard he does.