[haydn jones]

New regulations for climbing in Albarracín were published in the B.O.A., which is the Official Bulletin for such autonomous region. These are the main points which everybody should strictly follow if you do not want to get fined and/or make things worse:

1. Sport climbing requiring non-removable or removable protection is forbidden.

2. Bouldering is allowed just on the indicated areas. However, within these areas climbing is forbidden on boulders which can be seen from the road from Albarracín to Donarque, as well as in a 30 metre radius around the cave paintings.

3. Climbing is restricted from an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset.

4. Magnesium, tick-marks and any other product that leaves marks on the rock surface is prohibited.

Just some few days ago, the new regulations for climbing in Albarracín were published in the B.O.A., which is the Official Bulletin for such autonomous region. These are the main points which everybody should strictly follow if you do not want to get fined and/or make things worse:

1. Sport climbing requiring non-removable or removable protection is forbidden.

2. Bouldering is allowed just on the indicated areas. However, within these areas climbing is forbidden on boulders which can be seen from the road from Albarracín to Donarque, as well as in a 30 metre radius around the cave paintings.

3. Climbing is restricted from an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset.

4. Magnesium, tick-marks and any other product that leaves marks on the rock surface is prohibited.

http://www.boa.aragon.es/cgi-bin/EBOA/BRSCGI?CMD=VERDOC&BASE=BOLE&PIECE=BOLE&DOCS=1-45&DOCR=4&SEC=FIRMA&RNG=200&SEPARADOR&&PUBL=20141128

[haydn jones]

Wasn't sure where to post this so put it here :s

[r-man]

Oh dear, doesn't sound like there is much love for the climbers. Don't the Spanish have a BMC?

[dave]

Aren't they the same "rules" that have always been in place that everyone ignores?

[haydn jones]

Oh don't know about that dave. It was posted on 8a.shit so could be false info/out of date.

[a dense loner]

Rule number one is my favourite

[tomtom]

Looks like you're fine to shit all over the place though...

[lagerstarfish]

as long as it doesn't mark the rock surface

[kelvin]

Oh I dunno, the odd smear might hide the tick marks.

[tomtom]

Or - use a cunning poo-toilet paper combo to 'paste' over the tick marks! Everyones a winner!

[haydn jones]

"Wow this sloper feels as sticky as shit on a sheet"

[Paul B]

Oh dear, doesn't sound like there is much love for the climbers. Don't the Spanish have a BMC?

If this surprises you then I'd imagine you haven't been? Climbers have trashed this place and show almost zero respect for it. The toilet 'situation' near the approved (I can't understand this, here or in Margalef) parking area / sleeping zone is ridiculous...

[r-man]

I've been. I actually didn't see any poo, despite being on the lookout for it after friends had warned me it was everywhere. This was some years ago, so I've no idea what it's like now.

I never said I was surprised, but it is disappointing. This has obviously been an issue for many years, why haven't the climbers and the authorities got together to sort something out? Regulations with ridiculous rules like no chalk suggest that there hasn't been a lot of conversation. Maybe I'm wrong, but as an outsider looking in, it does seem like a weird state of affairs.

[Durbs]

Likewise never been, but it's reputation is that it's essentially one large toilet and from photos it does look massively over-chalked. Perhaps this is made worse by the colour of the rock making the chalk stand out more?

This usually seems to be blamed on the locals rather than tourists - but it doesn't suggest there's much respect for the area.
In general, is it fair to say our European counterparts on the whole aren't that litter-aware when out and about? Quite often see various crap when in national parks in Spain/Italy/Croatia (France, not so much)

Having said all this, isn't chalk still technically banned in Font?

[chris20]

I got back from Albarracine last week, I reckon I could have filled quite a few pages of the donkey line of shame thread.  I didn't actually see any turds but plenty of bog roll especially around the parking area

[dave]

Last time I was there (about 2008 ish?) not only was climbing visible from the road totally normal (that vertical wall with the huge 8a dyno is roadside, as is the one with some big 8 a female Brit recently had a video online of) but we saw people clearly squatting down for a shit about 50foot from the road, clearly visible to passing cars. Not heard much recently to make me think that has changed.

The whole situation there seems ridiculous. If the rules were to be adhered to then it would be a start if sponsored climbers in vids would play by them. But equally the rules are so ridiculous as to be unworkable and unenforceable. Basically they amount to saying climbers need to be invisible to non-climbers. Nice idea but not going to happen.

[Paul B]

I've been. I actually didn't see any poo, despite being on the lookout for it after friends had warned me it was everywhere. This was some years ago, so I've no idea what it's like now.

Likewise, I don't understand why the climbers/authority in climbing doesn't do something about this.

I haven't been for a number of years now having heard that some of the temporary bans were now less temporary (although once again many climbers simply didn't abide by those rules) but I went a few times and there was a marked deteroriation each time.

I simply don't understand why the Spanish (and it is most noticeable IMO in Spain) think that allowing people to park up and stay overnight is a good idea when there's simply no toilet facilties nearby. It's almost inevitable. I also don't understand why people who go bouldering willingly opt to take a dump underneath chalked up bits of rock (i.e. Parking area).

Someone mentioned recently (Ben D?) that the camping in Margarlef was being moved due to these 'issues'. I'm imagining the olive farmer who has the fields next to this doesn't get much for his olives these days!

[fatdoc]

just use Pof?? for the rock.. not yr arse

seriously... its a shame that its come to this..iirc something happened a bit similar in the Calanques.. esp the turd issue.. in the late 80s..

[Doylo]

There's no bit of spare ground without shit within a half mile radius of that Margalef campsite .

[fatdoc]

why the fuck even consider going there the??

turd holiday anyone?

lets chow down 

[cha1n]

There is a large amount of shit there but you'd generally only notice it if you were staying in the car park in a van and had to venture out for one yourself.

I stayed in the car park for a few weeks and whilst I'd Bury my waste, there's plenty of people who walk about 10 paces before squatting down.

I was away for a year and Albarracin was the only place where I was unfortunate enough to pass a handful of people taking a shit in the morning. Many also think that covering their feces with toilet paper was effective as burying it - especially if the toilet paper was pink.

I think the chalk issue is massively down to the rock colour and most of the feces under boulder problems will have been left my tourists visiting the underwhelming pinturas.

I never got a friendly vibe from Albarracin. There aren't many proper locals who look out for it and respect it. Lots of Germans powering screaming all over the place. Nice rock though.

[petejh]

I was going to write something about climbers shitting all over the place after returning from Geyikbayiri a month ago (and it's not even 'that' bad there cf. some places).

It boils down to: if you're involved in developing a climbing area and it's any good i.e. it'll attract crowds, then you are responsible for ensuring that the 3rd thing on the list, right after 'work out approach trail' and 'bolt first route', is 'build toilet facility' if one doesn't already exist very close by. Even then, at crags where there are campsite facilities at the start and end of the day (ceuse / geyikbayiri) it doesn't work well as any meander into the trees during busy times at those places will confirm.

Some popular sport crags make me feel ashamed to be involved in the activity. I came away from Trebanna in Geyakbayiri thinking it's a disgrace to develop an area and attract large crowds of people - all spending hours in one place - into that beautiful canyon yet have no regard for where the inevitable lorry-load of feces is going to end up, i.e.20 yards away in the trees and leading down to the stream. Near to where the local farmers were herding their goats along the path. I'm just as guilty as everyone else.

I've been to crags where people have clearly put in the thought and effort - Lake Louise and Skaha (and Citdibi in Turkey) - where long-drops have been built by local volunteers; even solar-powered composting toilets at skaha iirc. UIAA / regional bodies could do something useful here along with contributions (of the monetary kind) by visiting climbers.

[Muenchener]

It is definitely a problem, and let he who is without sin fling the first turd: I've had to nip into the trees now and again, although I do try to avoid it. At a lot of crags in Austria, and at the most popular crag in the Frankenjura (Weissenstein) there are portaloos near the base of the crag. I don't know who organises & pays for them, whether it's climbing clubs or the municipalities.

Even where there are some facilities, climbers seem to be collectively unable to make any effort to keep them halfway decent. See e.g. Magic Wood campsite. That was in a disgraceful state when I was there last summer.

It's a similar issue to huts in the Alps, which I think are a shame in some ways, but not as much of a shame as the state of popular bivvy sites would be if the huts didn't exist. I don't know what the answer is to this. Totalitarian over-regulation a la US national parks and total suburbanisation a la Alps both work to a degree but also have their drawbacks.

[petejh]

It's a tricky one for sure and I think it's one of those problems that people put their head in the sand over. There isn't much kudos or glory to be had from digging a long-drop or funding the construction of a composting loo.

But there should be!

[JohnM]

When I went to Albarracin there was a big group of Spanish climbers all sat round in one of the main areas getting stoned.  One guy walked about 5 yards away from the main group, pulled his kecks down and curled one out while carrying on his conversation.  No wipe, kecks back up, job done.  This was right by one of the main boulders in one of the most popular spots.