[Dave Flanagan]

Eh?

[slackline]

I expect "frequently" is mis-applied here and that the one person who's bought the book (Lagers) also bought "Now Thats What I Call Music 86".

It'll change as more people buy the book (I expect).

[dave]

How the fuck are amazon already selling them for 23 sheets?

[Grubes]

loss leader?
Selling at wholesale price or less in a hope you buy other things to make up the difference.
Plus its not a big loss to them and they can undercut everyone else in the market.

[dave]

I suppose any hit they take on Peak Rock they'll more than recoup on sales of Now 86.

[SA Chris]

How the fuck are amazon already selling them for 23 sheets?

Seems they haven't got any to actually sell so they can give it whatever price they like.

[dave]

And of course they're not paying any tax.

[grumpycrumpy]

Not exactly ........ The royalty payments they give the authors is vastly reduced .......

A mate of wrote a book about Black Sabbath when he was inbetween jobs and sold quite a few copies of it ....... Enough that when I visited him in London I thought he'd be able to take me out for a meal to say thanks for the help I'd given him researching it ......

He bought me a pint and a bag of crisps and explained to me that because most of the copies had been sold through Amazon he only received 32p per sale    ......

I think that he was maybe particulary naive, but I haven't bought anything from Amazon since just in case .........

[Dolly]

Depends on how it was sold into Amazon - ie through a reseller/ at a guaranteed sell price/sale or return etc etc etc
Too many missing pieces of info for us to know


I do know that that etailers will sometimes only make 3 or 4p a unit on software just to stop others getting the sale and in the hope that punters will buy other stuff from the site

[grumpycrumpy]

I'm not sure of all the details and as he seemed so fed up I didn't want to push him ......

It is a damned good read though ......

[Falling Down]

  (Maybe split this is a separate thread) Amazon are a weird case because they don't make much money but investors seem to tolerate low margins. In any other business the CEO would be sacked and the board savaged but Bezos Amazon just get treated gently by the market.  I'm guessing  It's really quite worrying because it is distorting the pricing in the markets in which they operate and I just don't see how it's sustainable.  Worst case, Amazon continue to price everything aggressively to drive out competition until there's no one left and they just then hike the prices up to consumers and then screw suppliers right down.  I'd like to see some more aggressive questioning and actions by their institutional shareholders.

[Falling Down]

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-24/same-old-amazon-all-sales-no-profit

[Dave Flanagan]

My book, Bouldering Essentials, is discounted 34% by Amazon. Shops have complained that they can buy the book cheaper there than they get it wholesale. This level of discounting while great for book buyers distorts the market I think, it's not rational to buy a book that is available and heavily discounted on Amazon anywhere else.

It especially dangerous if it's unsustainable. For this reason I'm not going to put all my books (guidebooks that people will go looking for rather than just stumble across) on Amazon but for some books you have no choice.

[Offwidth]

What is not rational is saying something is commonly sold with anything when they havent sold any. Seems to happen time and time again. Whatever happened to advertising standards? Support you local independant bookshops where you can.

[petejh]

Devil's advocate, but why? Why support my local bookstores when I can save loads of money buying the same books from Amazon? It's not like Amazon are selling an inferior product as in the case of local butcher/fishmonger's locally sourced meat versus supermarket mass-produced meat. It's an interesting debate - a buyer's market and we're being told we shouldn't partake and fill our boots.

I'm wondering whether I should put the NW lime guide on Amazon (if I ever finish it) or if I should boycott.

[fried]

I notice on Amazon that there's already a positive review from someone who bought the book on Amazon.com

[shark]

I notice on Amazon that there's already a positive review from someone who bought the book on Amazon.com

I can't see it

[fried]

Wow, I reported the review as abuse, and it's already gone.


Just went back and got it fro my history.

Most Helpful Customer Reviews on Amazon.com (beta)
Amazon.com: 5.0 out of 5 stars  1 review
5.0 out of 5 stars Inspiring 5 Dec 2013
By Baechler Yves-Vincent - Published on Amazon.com
Format:Hardcover
Best history climbing book I've ever read!! Pictures, histories, all inspiring. I wish I could live in the Peak district...

A swiss climber
› Go to Amazon.com to see the review 5.0 out of 5 stars
Was this review helpful?   Let us know

[GraemeA]

Devil's advocate, but why? Why support my local bookstores when I can save loads of money buying the same books from Amazon? It's not like Amazon are selling an inferior product as in the case of local butcher/fishmonger's locally sourced meat versus supermarket mass-produced meat. It's an interesting debate - a buyer's market and we're being told we shouldn't partake and fill our boots.

I'm wondering whether I should put the NW lime guide on Amazon (if I ever finish it) or if I should boycott.

Possibly because your local bookstore is actually your local climbing wall or climbing shop and the profit they make on Peak Rock helps keep other costs down.

Or the fact that The Works sold 48 Peak Rocks on Sunday during the launch celebration (netting us about £600) means that the other costs of the event (about £1000+ when you count the hidden costs) seem that much less intangible. So we will do similar things again.

Or Johnny's book. We paid in advance for this which enabled the book to be published (well technically probably meant that Johnny could eat). If Amazon totally undercuts us then maybe books don't get published in the future because I wouldn't be bothered to help authors in the future.

Oh and by the way Johnny, you selling your book in our car park on Sunday night was way out of order due to us helping you eat.

[finbarrr]

Devil's advocate, but why? Why support my local bookstores when I can save loads of money buying the same books from Amazon? It's not like Amazon are selling an inferior product as in the case of local butcher/fishmonger's locally sourced meat versus supermarket mass-produced meat. It's an interesting debate - a buyer's market and we're being told we shouldn't partake and fill our boots.

I'm wondering whether I should put the NW lime guide on Amazon (if I ever finish it) or if I should boycott.

and because amazon is not paying the taxes that small/local businesses do, therefor the rest of the population (the punters) (you) end up paying more taxes (higher v.a.t/council taxes)

[Peak Performance]

Wow, I reported the review as abuse, and it's already gone.
...
Best history climbing book I've ever read!! Pictures, histories, all inspiring. I wish I could live in the Peak district...

Why would you want to report that as abuse?!

Phil

[Grubes]

I'm wondering whether I should put the NW lime guide on Amazon (if I ever finish it) or if I should boycott.

It is a interesting question from a business point of view. Will you still get whole sale from amazon? Paying the same price to you as independant shops?
Amazon gets to a wider audiance and allows none climbing people looking for birthday or christmas presents to find it easier.
However this may upset climbing shops as amazon will no doubt undercut the RRP where as shops will probably sell at rrp and only offer BMC (or student or etc) discount.

But before you decide that maybe you should finish the book so we can give you some money? 

My personal choice is to try and buy from independant retailers as much as possible or publishers if guide books are independantly released. The climbing industry is very small and I like to think I am supporting the shops.
This is also why I try and avoid go outdoors as much as possible.

[Lund]

Or Johnny's book. We paid in advance for this which enabled the book to be published (well technically probably meant that Johnny could eat). If Amazon totally undercuts us then maybe books don't get published in the future because I wouldn't be bothered to help authors in the future.

Oh and by the way Johnny, you selling your book in our car park on Sunday night was way out of order due to us helping you eat.

That'll learn ya.  Johnny is many things, but on the same page as everyone else is not one of them... the only thing you should treat as a charity is actually a charity.  May as well give your cash to homeless people for food/bus fare/money to get in the (free, btw) hostel and complain when they spend it on white lightening...

[slackline]

only offer BMC (or student or etc) discount.

The BMC discount is, in my experience, very rarely applied to guidebooks (or DVDs) in shops (they do discount when buying direct from them, but this is usually lost when it comes to the cost of postage).

My personal choice is to try and buy from independant retailers as much as possible or publishers if guide books are independantly released. The climbing industry is very small and I like to think I am supporting the shops.

  and on top of that always get local guidebooks over those produced by some larger companies. 

[SA Chris]

Amazon gets to a wider audiance and allows none climbing people looking for birthday or christmas presents to find it easier.
However this may upset climbing shops as amazon will no doubt undercut the RRP where as shops will probably sell at rrp and only offer BMC (or student or etc) discount.
But before you decide that maybe you should finish the book so we can give you some money? 

I would have said that for something niche like NWL the appeal and publicity is wide enough that having Amazon as a stockist wouldn't up the final sales tally in the long run. If it's widely available from alternative stockist and online (in a place where you aren't getting ripped off for postage) then people will seek it out. And if anyone wants to buy it for someone as a present then have a word in their ear to say where they can get it from!