[Fultonius]

People often comment that I'm quite inflexible. I'd agree.

I also know that passive flexibility is useless. so, can anyone after any advice on improving hip range of movement AND strength?

[yorkshireman]

ive always had massive hip inflexibility and really tight hamstrings(i cant even touch my toes) and along with core tension this is what im going to concentrate on training over the winter.ive been shown a few exercises to improve my hip flexibilty and hamstings but its painful work for me.core is always painful and boring but where needs must.if you do a google search for hip flexibilty exercises there's quite alot written about it

[Falling Down]

Squats with or without weights. 

My flexibility was terrible until I started doing them, even trying the usual stretches which were just painful and useless.  Now that I can OHS Bodyweight on a bar or half bodyweight on two dumbbells it's a thousand times better.  Seriously.  Even Galpinos commented a couple of weeks back when we were out.

[Fultonius]

Cool, squats are good for my knee stabilisation anyway, so I should really do them more!

Do you think it's worth doing deep OHS with practically no weight to get the ROM going for a few weeks before getting the weight up?  I can do about 30-40kg OHS, but not very deep...

Need to get back on to dead-lifting too, my right hamstring is still pretty useless for heel-hooking.

[galpinos]

It's true Toby. He was really able to turn his hips out to heel hook like a girl which for a man of his advancing years is quite impressive!

(He does do lots of squats up against a wall that keeps his hips wide whilst squatting but I'm sure he will be along to explain it all himself)

[Big Dave]

Best thing I'd say would be 'cossack squats', I usually do these as a warm up before squats or deadlifts.

Can be done bodyweight or holding a dumbbell/kettlebell if you want to add weight.

[Falling Down]

Squats with or without weights. 

My flexibility was terrible until I started doing them, even trying the usual stretches which were just painful and useless.  Now that I can OHS Bodyweight on a bar or half bodyweight on two dumbbells it's a thousand times better.  Seriously.  Even Galpinos commented a couple of weeks back when we were out.

Ben, specifically what dimension of flexibility has been improved for you that way? It is hard to imagine how a lateral stretch like hip turn-out could be improved by squats?

All over really. I can now palm hands down down on the floor straight legged having only been able to touch toes before; have greater hip flexibility in every direction and a much, much stronger push/pull in legs and torso.  I know everyone will ignore me and carry on fingerboarding, ARCing and whatever to the exclusion of everything else but for me, as an over 40 yr old desk jockey stress head, the benefits of an overall weight lifting programme have proved massively beneficial in climbing, injury prevention, health and well being.  I'm still crap at climbing but I'm not getting much worse...

[shark]

I know everyone will ignore me and carry on fingerboarding, ARCing and whatever to the exclusion of everything else but for me, as an over 40 yr old desk jockey stress head, the benefits of an overall weight lifting programme have proved massively beneficial in climbing, injury prevention, health and well being.  I'm still crap at climbing but I'm not getting much worse...

At some point like with any non-specific training you get diminishing returns. Given that the primary physical demands in climbing are on relative finger strength and finger endurance that point is reached fairly quickly with weights. But it feels good and can be addictive.

[Falling Down]

I know everyone will ignore me and carry on fingerboarding, ARCing and whatever to the exclusion of everything else but for me, as an over 40 yr old desk jockey stress head, the benefits of an overall weight lifting programme have proved massively beneficial in climbing, injury prevention, health and well being.  I'm still crap at climbing but I'm not getting much worse...

At some point like with any non-specific training you get diminishing returns. Given that the primary physical demands in climbing are on relative finger strength and finger endurance that point is reached fairly quickly with weights. But it feels good and can be addictive.

I was being flippant with my remark Shark and I know that specific training is the best way to improve. It's just interesting that I've had reaped so many benefits including flexibility, increased core strength and injury proofing from a relatively infrequent and non specific activity.  If I was climbing and training a lot again I would definitely swap one of of my wall/board sessions for weights.

[Big Dave]

the benefits of an overall weight lifting programme have proved massively beneficial in climbing, injury prevention, health and well being.

.

 I know that specific training is the best way to improve. It's just interesting that I've had reaped so many benefits including flexibility, increased core strength and injury proofing from a relatively infrequent and non specific activity.
[/quote]

 

[shark]

If I was climbing and training a lot again I would definitely swap one of of my wall/board sessions for weights.

The beauty is that you don't have to (if you have the time). I find occasional DB complex or a 40 minute weights session doesnt get in the way of doing a wall or board session later in the day as it so different. Sometimes I feel better for it.

[Paul B]

The beauty is that you don't have to (if you have the time). I find occasional DB complex or a 40 minute weights session doesnt get in the way of doing a wall or board session later in the day as it so different. Sometimes I feel empowered by it.

shark_pink by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

[shark]

 

I dream of pressing that weight <sigh>

[runt]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=ski+hip+stretch&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1I7GGLL_en-GB&biw=1440&bih=787&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=i8Ze9DwOJKvMlM:&imgrefurl=http://performancetrainingsystems.net/CR-StretchExercises.php&docid=Vfpw6fZLPK7u9M&imgurl=http://performancetrainingsystems.net/images/Hip%252520Flexor%252520Stretch.jpg&w=2048&h=1536&ei=mOXTTtaIA5OBhQf686TmDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=370&vpy=358&dur=304&hovh=152&hovw=208&tx=155&ty=80&sig=112781528661237610324&page=2&tbnh=125&tbnw=176&start=31&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:31


Try this stretch, I was surprised how bad I was at it, also get an IT band roller, will help your hip loads if it's tight.

[Fultonius]

DFBWGstretching?

[hongkongstuey]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=ski+hip+stretch&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1I7GGLL_en-GB&biw=1440&bih=787&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=i8Ze9DwOJKvMlM:&imgrefurl=http://performancetrainingsystems.net/CR-StretchExercises.php&docid=Vfpw6fZLPK7u9M&imgurl=http://performancetrainingsystems.net/images/Hip%252520Flexor%252520Stretch.jpg&w=2048&h=1536&ei=mOXTTtaIA5OBhQf686TmDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=370&vpy=358&dur=304&hovh=152&hovw=208&tx=155&ty=80&sig=112781528661237610324&page=2&tbnh=125&tbnw=176&start=31&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:31


Try this stretch, I was surprised how bad I was at it, also get an IT band roller, will help your hip loads if it's tight.

if you find it easy then hold the back of the hamstring on the left leg and pull it towards you - this will increase the stretch. Also do the IT Band stretch (pigeon to those who do yoga) as this will use your body weight to deepen the intensity and work the hip flexor nice and deep.

[SA Chris]

God knows what that link is directing to, but if it's a pigeon pose as stu says, this is a great stretch for hip flexors, and very easy to adjust to suit your limitations.

[Ruarl]

<snip>

At some point like with any <snip> training you get diminishing returns. <snip>

Fixed that for you. All the advice I've read about training for climbing makes a whole bunch of assumptions about where you're coming from. I've been amazed by the difference that three months of functional training in the gym has made to my climbing.
To have reached the point where general strength and conditioning training can no longer be effective is quite a long way down the training-for-climbing path. I think everyone except the borderline elite (say, F8a redpointers and above) should try a block of mostly general strength and conditioning for a few weeks (8?) every once in a while, and see if it makes a difference.

Bodyweight squats are useful to practice the movement pattern, which is crucial to get right. But once you've got that, try goblet squats. The extra weight will help force you down, and reinforce the stretch a little.

And as for the poster who couldn't imagine improving hip turn-out with squats - try it, the next time you have problems with hip turn-out. If your hip turn-out is already good then congratulations! You don't need to improve. Also, you can't comment on the improvements squats bring if you've never tried.

Happy to help

[Fultonius]

There's a mantel problem at TCA in Glasgow that I *still* can't do, even though everyone else can piss up it. I've decided it's down to weak triceps and....poor hip-out flexibility!  My ass sticks out, so I topple off backwards. I can't keep my ass in, because my rigid hips prevent me!

Did some overhead squats with a wide-ish stance this morning - just with a bar.  (stance about shoulder width plus a couple of inches).

Well, I could actually feel my hips torquing my legs and pulling them inwards! (A but hard to explain)...so, up till Christmas OHS are firmly on the list of things I need to do!

[Muenchener]

OHS with a broomstick/light bar are great for both hip and shoulder mobility.

Squatting in general works hip mobility in a quite different  (and possibly more climbing-relevant?) way than many other hip turn-out/abduction exercises.

A particularly good variant that I read on a powerliftng website - good power and olympic lifters need, contrary to stereotypes, *excellent* hip mobility - is to stand in a pretty wide stance, double shoulder width or so, feet parallel, and attempt to squat backwards as if sitting down on a low bench. Make sure to keep the knees pressing outwards and don't allow the feet to splay. This one gets really into the soft tissues around the hip capsule itself rather than "just" stretching the adductor muscles.

[Big Dave]

Good call with the goblet squats.

and good call with the squat technique, as in a bit wider than shoulder width stance, toes pointed out a bit works better for me, then push knees out as you descend as if sitting back. Drive up through the heels not toes.

[shark]

At some point like with any non-specific training you get diminishing returns. Given that the primary physical demands in climbing are on relative finger strength and finger endurance that point is reached fairly quickly with weights. But it feels good and can be addictive.

<snip>

At some point like with any <snip> training you get diminishing returns. <snip>

Fixed that for you.

I was talking about climbing returns rather than training gains. A small (diminished) gain in finger strength will give a better climbing payback than a small (dimished) gain in squats.

Like you say weights have their place but it is easy to get sidetracked with them at the expense of more effective work which whilst less novel, more boring and with only incremental training gains offer the potential for magnified climbing returns.

 

[Fultonius]

I think the important thing to remember is that these types of additional training are very specific to individuals.

For someone with good lower back/hamstring strength and hip flexibility, training this will have little benefit.

Everyone can benefit from stronger fingers....