can an ascent be claimed if preplaced runners are used?
Abbing in and pre-placing the gear is generally very lame though and reduces trad routes to sport routes. But I’ve never actually seen anyone stoop that low.
it’s supposed to be a fun day out
However one thing I would say that if someone is happy to prepractice a route, it does seem to be a bit arbritory to insist on placing all the gear on lead. Thats not a critcism of headpointing or Dave Mac by the way.
Quote from: roddersm on July 02, 2010, 11:18:07 amHowever one thing I would say that if someone is happy to prepractice a route, it does seem to be a bit arbritory to insist on placing all the gear on lead. Thats not a critcism of headpointing or Dave Mac by the way.I don't buy this argument. By pre-practicing the ascent they have already hugely stacked the odds in their favour compared to an onsight, why should life then be made even easier by having all the gear in? The whole point of the headpoint concept is that all the shady business goes on prior to the ascent, so that the actual ascent can be whiter than white.
Quote from: Bonjoy on July 02, 2010, 10:34:11 amAbbing in and pre-placing the gear is generally very lame though and reduces trad routes to sport routes. But I’ve never actually seen anyone stoop that low. i guess i'll be needing a wheelchair that fits under a snakes belly then.
I thought Sean Myles got a really raw deal over Rodney Mullen.
If the pre-placing of gear is as significant as you're saying and is indeed cheating then surely a lot of high profile ascents of trad routes, such as Ste Macs on Rhapsody, Sebs on Parthian, Dave B on Divided years/WOL etc. should not be recognised as valid ascents?
Quote from: roddersm on July 02, 2010, 02:48:44 pmIf the pre-placing of gear is as significant as you're saying and is indeed cheating then surely a lot of high profile ascents of trad routes, such as Ste Macs on Rhapsody, Sebs on Parthian, Dave B on Divided years/WOL etc. should not be recognised as valid ascents? They're valid ascents in the style that they chose to do them. Each of these people had the integrity to report the style in which they did the ascent. Nothing more, nor less. They and others can go back and improve on that style if so desired.Now stop trolling
Slack Line. I started this thread as a way to gain knowledge from other people (like bonjoy and who ever else has contributed) as opposed to put across my own opinion on this from my limited headpointing knowledge. If this has been debated before on here or elsewhere then point me to it. It's obviously still a contentious issue though or Dave Mac wouldn't have brought it up in his blog.
Quote from: roddersm on July 02, 2010, 04:09:31 pmSlack Line. I started this thread as a way to gain knowledge from other people (like bonjoy and who ever else has contributed) as opposed to put across my own opinion on this from my limited headpointing knowledge. If this has been debated before on here or elsewhere then point me to it. It's obviously still a contentious issue though or Dave Mac wouldn't have brought it up in his blog.I'm not going to do the leg work for you when is as accessible to you as it is to me.If you're after gaining opinions of others then cast your net wider and incorporate UKC, you'll find lots more there than on here about it and you'll also find that it ultimately boils down to the fact that different people have different opinions of what constitutes a "valid" ascent. The key is that people are honest about the style in which they have done a climb so that others can judge for themselves whether this is an step-forwards or backwards in terms of the style in which a given route has been climbed.Dave MacLeod wasn't making an issue out of pre-placing/placing on lead. What he was doing is being honest about the style in which he made his ascent.