[Fultonius]

So, once again, I had to give up at Dumby last night due to flaming elbows (or biceps).

If you grab you bicep right at the base, where it gets narrower towards the elbow, that's where it hurts.

It seems to come on from doing too much hanging around on steep traverses. (or climbing in Font)

Any thoughts?

I used to think it was an elbow problem, but now I'm thinking it might be as simple as inflammation of the biceps tendon near where it joins the muscle?

[GCW]

Seen this?

[SA Chris]

Alsew a gud sauce 4 infomation

http://www.athlon.com.au/articles.htm

[Fultonius]

Seen this?

Nope. Got a bit lost to be honest. Most of the stuff associated with the biceps is the upper tendon near the shoulder - mine hurts at the distal end.

Chris, I had a look through there and once again, it mentions all the other types (medial and leteral epicondylosis, etc.) but none describe my pain, man.


Just re-read Dave Macleods advice on causes of elbow injuries:
 

Sloppy footwork – frequent slippage of feet leading to sudden overloading of elbows causing repeated micro-trauma. Check

Insufficient use of momentum in movement – overly static movement causes much higher peak forces on the elbow, which simply adds up over time until symptoms appear. This technical inefficiency is often never recognised by the climber, or even by qualified therapists and hence many climbers have recurring elbow problems for the rest of their careers.

Poor attitude to caring for the body – Understand that climbing is an un-natural activity, we are designed physiologically to run and do many other types of movements, but not to support our body weight from our arms and flex our elbows repeatedly under this load. Don’t treat your body as if it should absorb this punishment. Treat it as if it will become injured unless you go out of your way to help it accommodate the chronic un-natural loading. cCheck

Poor warm-up or recovery status – training when tired, poorly fuelled, not mentally ready for the climbing (think: climbing straight after work or with bad distractions) means you are much more likely to do damage to your elbows. It might not be a catastrophic tear. Rather, it will be microscopic. But do this three times a week for a year and the injury will reach the symptomatic point. Check

So, 3 out of 4 - not bad 

Pretty sure it's something to do with the brachialis or brachioradialis.

[nic mullin]

I had a similar issue last november-december (during and after a font trip, quelle surprise). After trawling through various bits on the internet I decided it was probably brachioradialis tendonitis. I found that doing 3 sets of 20 press ups and 3 sets of 20 reverse wrist curls with 3-5 kilos every other day had me pain free within a month.

I don't know if my diagnosis was correct or if the sets/reps were right for doing what I was trying to achieve, but doing that lot stopped my elbows hurting, which was all I wanted.

[Scraggadoo]

Happened to me too whilst in Font - interesting quoting from Dave McLeod though, never come across that before.

I had the pain on the inside of my elbow, right where my bicep starts just like you.  I have experienced this on two occasions - when I don't warm up properly and just get straight into things (quelle surprise), and when climbing in Font.  In Font I climbed almost every day for 6 days so it's no surprise it flared up then, despite warming up properly. 

I searched (and hardly got anything) for information on this, but I thought Font elbow was on the outside of the elbow, where the triceps are?  I don't really know so someone can put me right there!

[The Sausage]

Sorry, don't know how to do one of those hyperlink things, but I wrote a long piece on here a while back about arm pain associated with instability at the shoulder. Have a search for shoulder instability or elbow pain and i'm sure it'll throw something up.

[slackline]

Sorry, don't know how to do one of those hyperlink things, but I wrote a long piece on here a while back about arm pain associated with instability at the shoulder. Have a search for shoulder instability or elbow pain and i'm sure it'll throw something up.

Is it this one?

[Fultonius]

Le Sausage:

Do you think shoulder instability could cause brachilis/brachioradialis strains (or tendonitis/osis)?

I have had an impingement on my left shoulder, several subluxations. (more than 10 in one trip once due to a trapped nerve in my neck, which stopped my rotator cuff working)

Anyway, I spent a while "fixing" my shoulders (theraband, weights etc. etc.)  and they've been pretty good since, but I must admit, I've not been doing any of my shoulder work recenty, and climbing lots   .

I had a particurly intense session of bouldering and routes at Dumby on Sunday and didn't feel recovered at all on tuesday (shouldn't have gone down) both shoulders felt "stiff" after sunday (in fact, my right shoulder felt slightly impinged) and I think picked up a slight strain of the right scapula retractor (about 1" down from the inside top corner of my scapula).

The I did too short a warm up and jumped on to my project (an elbow inflaming slopey traverse).

And BANG, flaming elbows. I wonder why   



I really need a trip to the physio, now I'm thinking about it, there's definitely something funny going on with my shoulders. If I try and retract my scapulas they are not both doing the same movement - the left feels good, but the right is "winging" slightly.

Time to retrain the movement again I think!!!

[Scraggadoo]

Sorry, don't know how to do one of those hyperlink things, but I wrote a long piece on here a while back about arm pain associated with instability at the shoulder. Have a search for shoulder instability or elbow pain and i'm sure it'll throw something up.

I had a quick read of this - to be honest half of it went straight over the top of my head, but I will make an effort to fully understand it all when I get the time to read up further on it.

That said, I’m interested to know what the shoulder exercises are that you seem to have recommended to people – I would like to give this a go and see if this cures the elbow problem I very occasionally get.  It probably doesn’t happen frequently yet because I don’t climb on consecutive days but as the weather is picking up this will probably change...

[Falling Down]

Brilliant ad linking at the bottom of this thread for an 'Injured?' Helpline

[stom]

That said, I’m interested to know what the shoulder exercises are that you seem to have recommended to people – I would like to give this a go and see if this cures the elbow problem I very occasionally get.  It probably doesn’t happen frequently yet because I don’t climb on consecutive days but as the weather is picking up this will probably change...

I've found this article http://www.theshortspan.com/features/injury/shoulder.htm really helpfull for shoulder stability issues.  I personally do these exercises around 2-3 times per week, which seems to work for me.

[Fultonius]

I've found this article http://www.theshortspan.com/features/injury/shoulder.htm really helpfull for shoulder stability issues.  I personally do these exercises around 2-3 times per week, which seems to work for me.

That's pretty similar to my regime, plus pressups and some free weights.

[The Sausage]

Le Sausage:

Do you think shoulder instability could cause brachilis/brachioradialis strains (or tendonitis/osis)?

The point is that it ISN'T tendinitis/osis or anything to do with your tendons around your elbows. It's referred pain from impinged structures around the shoulder, which may include biceps/triceps tendons and any of the nerves as they pass into your arm.

[Fultonius]

Hmm, not convinced.

I've had referred pain from a pinched nerve in my neck before. Damn sore, and it really does feel like the referred location hurts. However, nothing i did made any difference, the pain was still there.

With this, I can really feel the tight muscles stretch out when I do the Brachioradialis stretch and bicep stretch and I can actually pin-point the pain location which gets more sore the harder pressure I put on it. I doubt this would apply if it was referred.

Do you agree?

[cofe]

i had something very similar about 4 years ago, pretty much as described in your second para in post above. had seen a physio but a regime of weights etc only made it worse.

saw a very good osteopath. he said cause was shoulder and it was manifesting in elbow area in brachioradialis, pretty much as sausage man says i guess. he did work on shoulder and a bit on the arm over the course of a few sessions, combined with me doing brachioradialis stretches and hot and cold packs on arm every day. sorted it right out, hasn't returned since. if i feel any twinges in elbows these days i tend to just stop immediately, give it a few days and it's generally fine.