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the shizzle => equipment => Topic started by: sxrxg on June 18, 2017, 03:25:21 pm

Title: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: sxrxg on June 18, 2017, 03:25:21 pm
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154699570458595&id=97486098594

The above video popped up on my Facebook today. Two new shoes from Wild Country (a lace up and a velcro) both with Michelin rubber. Amazed that such a large rubber manufacturer are getting involved in climbing shoes. Am really interested to see how they turn out as I'm sure with Michelins huge resources they would not put there name to a poor product.

Does anyone know anything more about these?


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Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: webbo on June 18, 2017, 06:09:21 pm
Don't Red Chilli use the same rubber as Continental tyres or have I just made that up.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: sxrxg on June 18, 2017, 06:44:55 pm
All the red chilli shoes I have ever owned seem to have own brand Rx rubber. Not sure who makes this though, certainly never seen it branded as continental.

Seems like we are going to be spoilt for choice for shoes in 2018 though with black diamond also releasing a full range - https://youtu.be/WcPdONwRug0

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Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: jwi on June 18, 2017, 06:59:20 pm
Ŕ propos Black Diamond climbing shoes:

I'm really confused why Black Diamond are making and selling premium climbing shoes. (Prices seems to be around $160-180). La Sportiva and 5.10 have a bunch of shoes in that segment,  Scarpa and Evolv have a quite a few and there are even offerings from Tenaya and a few other brands. To make it worse: La Sportiva and 5.10 have very strong brand-names and a strong reputation for high performance.

Standard business theory would suggest that to positioning yourself in this crowded segment is a sure way to lose money.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Moo on June 18, 2017, 07:44:10 pm
Climbing walls are booming and climbing is going to be in the olympics. I'm surprised there aren't more shoe brands popping up.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Muenchener on June 18, 2017, 07:54:55 pm
BD have been doing clothing for a couple of years now too; I'm seeing quite a lot of it about, and I have one of their softshell jackets that I use for alpine stuff & it's excellent. But I suppose clothing is less performance critical and doesn't attract such ferocious brand loyalty as shoes.

Otoh some new entrants seem to be doing ok in the shoe market. Tenaya have establshed a good reputation rather quickly. Probably helped by some smart sponsorship deals: Alex Megos, the Anderson brothers - but from what one hears the shoes are genuinely good. And there's a Korean brand called Butora that seems to be well liked in the US, although I have yet to see them anywhere in Europe.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: jwi on June 18, 2017, 08:18:10 pm
The margins must be ridiculously high.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 18, 2017, 08:42:52 pm
Tenaya have establshed a good reputation rather quickly. Probably helped by some smart sponsorship deals: Alex Megos, the Anderson brothers - but from what one hears the shoes are genuinely good. And there's a Korean brand called Butora that seems to be well liked in the US, although I have yet to see them anywhere in Europe.

The flipside is I can't think of a single person I know who wears Tenaya shoes, with the possible exception of Dolph who is I assume sponsored by them. I would say they had a non-existent reputation. I have no idea who the Anderston brothers are, and I burnt Megos off.

The main three as far as I can tell from what I see are still 5:10, Sportiva and Scarpa (i.e. lots of folk buying their own boots wear them, which tells you a lot), with Boreal, Evolve and Red Chili these days being relegated to the second tier (I.e. you can name one sponsored wad who wears each one), and the likes of Tenaya being very much a Vauxhall Conference shoe. And then you've got Andrea Boldrini for those folk who think Sportivas are just too cheap.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: jwi on June 18, 2017, 08:47:18 pm
There's a reason why there are only two-and-a-half brands of athletic shoes: nike, adidas and puma
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: mrjonathanr on June 18, 2017, 09:24:36 pm
Aren't Puma a fraternal offshoot from Adidas (or something along those lines...?).

I think Tenaya have been around a while, the Pou brothers have been ticking with them on their feet for a few years I think, it's only recently I guess they have become established outside of Spain.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 18, 2017, 09:27:23 pm
Puma was started by Adi Dassler's brother after a family bust up I think.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: webbo on June 18, 2017, 09:40:39 pm
Back in the day Sean Kelly( Irish cyclist in case you don't know) was sponsored by Puma. On his Cycling shoes underneath the painted on Puma stripe you could see 3 blacked out Adidas stripes.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: moose on June 18, 2017, 09:56:13 pm
And as a counterpoint, Cruyff had a personal sponsorship deal with Puma, so when he played for the Dutch national team, which was sponsorred by Adidas, he had to have a custom kit with 2 stripes, rather than 3.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 18, 2017, 09:57:10 pm
Back in the day Sean Kelly( Irish cyclist in case you don't know) was sponsored by Puma. On his Cycling shoes underneath the painted on Puma stripe you could see 3 blacked out Adidas stripes.

Similarly there are numerous rumours around, at last some which are true, of Boreal sponsored climbers shipping their brand new boots off to get resoled in Stealth.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Andy F on June 18, 2017, 10:27:07 pm
There's a reason why there are only two-and-a-half brands of athletic shoes: nike, adidas and puma

Erm, Asics....
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Fultonius on June 18, 2017, 10:29:50 pm
I had a pair of Tenaya Masai's way back maybe 10 years ago. Terrible rubber back then.

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Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Mike Tyson on June 18, 2017, 10:49:43 pm
I might get my Doc Martens resolved by Dr Oetker. I want a pizza this action.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Nibile on June 19, 2017, 05:47:19 am
If the Michelin rubber behaves like he MotoGP one, with one pair you're climbing Meshuga and with another one you're falling off S grade routes.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: SA Chris on June 19, 2017, 08:59:15 am
There's a reason why there are only two-and-a-half brands of athletic shoes: nike, adidas and puma

Erm, Asics....

Erm and Reebok and Brooks if you are looking at proper running shoes, not fashion trainers.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: jfdm on June 19, 2017, 09:01:06 am
There's a reason why there are only two-and-a-half brands of athletic shoes: nike, adidas and puma

Erm, Asics....

Erm and Reebok and Brooks if you are looking at proper running shoes, not fashion trainers.
Erm, Saucony if you are looking for a great pair of trainers, flat laces that never come undone - brilliant.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: andy_e on June 19, 2017, 09:04:41 am
Erm, Walsh too, the original trainers.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: cheque on June 19, 2017, 09:44:05 am
In the races that my girlfriend runs everybody has Asics, New Balance, Brooks or Saucony. Anyone wearing Nike or Adidas looks suspiciously like a punter.

I had a pair of Tenayas. They were, if anything, better made than Five Tens, but out of some slightly cheaper-seeming materials, which didn't affect their longevity. The only thing I disliked was the rubber but it was the same stuff that Scarpas (which I don't get on with either) have so I'd put that down more to my personal preference than it being rubbish.

Indoor climbing (and it's spritual cousins top-roping in quarries and grit bouldering in sweltering heat) is becoming more and more popular so it's probably a no-brainer for companies to get shoes out there given that they're; a) one of the few pieces of gear that every climber needs and b) the only piece of gear that beginners go through quicker than more experienced climbers.

I'd guess that Michelin's involvement in the WC shoes is just licensing their brand name to them to give them a bit of cachet. I can't imagine they're worried about losing tyre sales if the shoes are crap- 99.9% of their customers will surely never find out about the shoes and will probably just think it's cool (http://www.falkentire.com/sites/default/files/content/article/article-image/667x906xSasha_RockClimb_Ad.jpg.pagespeed.ic.MxbQ-mSiGg.jpg) if they do.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 19, 2017, 10:29:10 am
I hear these new Michelin shoes are really comfy, so you'll never tyre of wearing them.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: duncan on June 19, 2017, 10:53:01 am
BD have been doing clothing for a couple of years now too; I'm seeing quite a lot of it about, and I have one of their softshell jackets that I use for alpine stuff & it's excellent. But I suppose clothing is less performance critical and doesn't attract such ferocious brand loyalty as shoes.

<snip>

And there's a Korean brand called Butora that seems to be well liked in the US, although I have yet to see them anywhere in Europe.

Bultora will be making the forthcoming BD shoes.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: andy_e on June 19, 2017, 11:52:33 am
I hear these new Michelin shoes are really comfy, so you'll never tyre of wearing them.

Aren't they in danger of treading on competitors' toes?
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: danm on June 19, 2017, 12:16:34 pm
Brands like BD will tend to offer a good discount to the retailer for buying across the product range, i.e if you place forward orders above a certain value in multiple sectors (clothing, footwear, climbing hardware, packs, tents) you'll get a bigger margin than someone who just cherry-picks the likely best sellers from the brand. This makes it possible for them to break into new market sectors.

Tenaya have been around for years and their shoes are well regarded despite the narrow parochialism of many UK climbers who can't see past Scarpa, 5.10 and Sportiva. The days of getting resoles in Stealth are long gone, even Boreal has decent rubber these days on their better shoes. 5.10 build quality went really bad, I've heard lots of reports of returned new pinks for example, but should hopefully pick up once Adidas get their QA systems online there.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Palomides on June 19, 2017, 01:21:34 pm
Don't Red Chilli use the same rubber as Continental tyres or have I just made that up.

top-end conti tyres have "Black Chilli" rubber, but I sort of assumed that it came from the shoe company to Continental, instead of the other way round.

The WC video says "Michelin Formula Wild Compound". Michelon use "Wild" in the naming convention of their MTB tyres, and recently they've been both increasing investment in their off-road tyres and doing collaborations with other types of shoes, like these
(https://assets.probikeshop.fr/images/products2/83/104093/600x600-104093-104093-nw1-maina-main.jpg)
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 19, 2017, 01:42:46 pm
I hear these new Michelin shoes are really comfy, so you'll never tyre of wearing them.

Aren't they in danger of treading on competitors' toes?

As long as they're not selling them at inflated prices.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: andy_e on June 19, 2017, 01:47:48 pm
They'll definitely be expensive. Daylight rubbery.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 19, 2017, 01:53:11 pm
I hope they're not a let down.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: cheque on June 19, 2017, 01:54:15 pm
I've heard they're the pits.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: andy_e on June 19, 2017, 01:59:04 pm
If that's the case then the manufacturers need to get a grip.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 19, 2017, 02:04:35 pm
If that's the case then the manufacturers need to get a grip.

We'll see prices slashed.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: andy_e on June 19, 2017, 02:12:45 pm
I wonder if they'll puncture the profits of other companies though?
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Will Hunt on June 19, 2017, 02:36:16 pm
I expect that by being the first to brake into rock shoe development, what they're wheely trying to do is corner the market.

Personally, I think the whole range of shoes will look worn pretty quickly, and will be on skid row before long.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Muenchener on June 19, 2017, 03:19:01 pm
Red Chilli don't seem to have that much traction here in Bavaria, even though the company is driven by local wad Stefan Glowacz
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 19, 2017, 03:28:03 pm
I expect that by being the first to brake into rock shoe development, what they're wheely trying to do is corner the market.

Personally, I think the whole range of shoes will look worn pretty quickly, and will be on skid row before long.

Maybe I spoke too soon.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: andy_e on June 19, 2017, 03:29:35 pm
I wonder if the market researchers have gauged the pressure in the market correctly.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: dave on June 19, 2017, 03:31:46 pm
They clearly think it's a goodyear to do it.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: jfdm on June 19, 2017, 05:50:31 pm
To generate traction they need to first get a toe hold into the rock shoe market.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: cha1n on June 19, 2017, 06:06:03 pm
Could be interesting if Michelin use their 'energy saving' rubber, I noticed a difference in my mpg on my car with them. Any way to save energy on the climb init...
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: tomtom on June 19, 2017, 07:33:08 pm
I wonder if the market researchers have gauged the pressure in the market correctly.

Its clearly over-inflated.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: Will Hunt on June 19, 2017, 08:19:48 pm
Maybe Shark will Climb Faster™ in these.
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: tomtom on June 19, 2017, 08:43:24 pm
Superb picture!

(http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/52a89e7769bedd4f1c5b486b-3508-2002/00052293_hd.jpg)
Title: Re: Wild Country Shoes with Michelin Rubber...
Post by: SA Chris on June 21, 2017, 05:47:00 pm
Kid wants nothing to do with that shit.

Rightly so.
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