UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Iesu on February 17, 2017, 11:09:32 pm
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I did a basic search for ADHD and couldn't find anything relevant beyond disparaging comparisons of attention span/artistic merit etc so apologies if this has been well covered elsewhere. Please point me there if so.
I'm interested to know thoughts on ADHD in general from informed or just opinionated folks. I have often suspected I am "on the spectrum" and came across a basic diagnostic checklist (no idea of the efficacy of this btw), on which I score >75% in the "potential indicator behaviour for ADHD". I don't know if this (result or test) is significant or not.https://add.org/adhd-test/ (https://add.org/adhd-test/)
I have long been suspicious of medicalising behaviour in this way and have related reservations about seeking this kind of diagnosis for myself. I have family experience of youths (US) being diagnosed which I perceived more as a form of parental parental control of "challenging" behaviour via medication. Seems like a lot of the stuff around behaviour is pseudo science.
I wonder if this behavioural trait could be a convenient excuse for my inability to train for climbing? That would be nice.
Do I want to take Ritalin? No
Was this post prompted by reading an article in the Grauniad? Yes! #middleclasshandwringing ?
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Having had recent experience of working with a couple of Psychaitrists who have a lot knowledge and expertise in this area. I would suggest that a more reliable way of getting a diagnosis would be by having an assessment by such as the above.
However I would also suggest that unless it is causing major problems in your life such as the inability to form relationships, hold down a job or study or involvement with the criminal justice system, I wouldn't bother.
You could also end up with a differential diagnosis such as Emotionally unstable personality disorder or the like, which might not help with work insurance etc.
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18 questions may seem like a lot if you are in search of an answer but in the absence of a clinical assesssment it doesn't seem like a strong evidence base to me.
Webbo knows about this stuff in a way I don't - I teach children- so I'd listen to him.
Why not try practical strategies and see if you feel any benefit? I think yoga does what it says on the tin (so long as you have a good teacher in a style you like). Have you tried that?
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Not being funny, that has me in "warrants investigation" but I'm quite sure I don't have ADHD.
My kids would all be in the extreme right column, mind you...
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Why not try practical strategies and see if you feel any benefit? I think yoga does what it says on the tin (so long as you have a good teacher in a style you like). Have you tried that?
Funny that because I don't really perceive it as a "problem" per se;I looked into this more out of curiosity to see how I wouldn't score based on various comments about my hyperactivity (particularly from parents in relation to my yoof). My other half laughed heartily and knowingly at the questions and evidently thinks i DO have a problem!
I have practiced yoga fo a long number of years but am in a bit of a lull phase with it at the moment due to recurrent shoulder injuries. I hadn't really fully considered the benefits in relation to behaviour before but then I haven't delved far into the meditation/spiritual side.
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I'm doing more yoga recently because of a shoulder injury.. I go to a studio where you can attend a class which is the real thing, immediately preceding one which is just yogercise and pretensions, it's worth being selective.
By 'what it says on the tin' I mean I don't believe you have to buy into any beliefs, if it is an effective active meditation you'll get whatever benefit that may bring, or not, no need to overthink it. Ashtanga seems the best for me.
I never have the patience for quiet mediation though I can see the point.
Regarding 'problems'- if you don't think you have one- maybe it's not a problem.
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I'm doing more yoga recently because of a shoulder injury.. I go to a studio where you can attend a class which is the real thing, immediately preceding one which is just yogercise and pretensions, it's worth being selective.
By 'what it says on the tin' I mean I don't believe you have to buy into any beliefs, if it is an effective active meditation you'll get whatever benefit that may bring, or not, no need to overthink it. Ashtanga seems the best for me.
I never have the patience for quiet mediation though I can see the point.
Regarding 'problems'- if you don't think you have one- maybe it's not a problem.
Agreed on Ashtanga as the form of choice. On the other hand I have found more generic "yogercise" classes to be a useful complement keeping it interesting; I've been to various classes at various studios locally in Leeds and when abroad on trips. I was attending "proper" ashtanga classes last year which seemed to cause/contribute to a R shoulder impingement which put me out of action; vinyasa and d-dogs were extremely painful.
Not been back to classes since but I practice from books/vids/experience intermittently at home but am on another pull after subluxing my existing injured L shoulder in a cycle commute incident a month ago (other cyclist at fault!) and doing my L ankle ligaments coming down off Blencathra last weekend...
I've definitely found the activity based meditative "trance" to be a useful calming activity personally but with the usual "busy life, yet another selfish hobby" caveats/barriers to getting on with it! So v much agreed on the "take what you want from yoga" angle. I perceive it as a useful thing to practice but have never bought into the whole lifestyle deal (yet!).
Incidentally I have found yoga more useful as a training aid to climbing than any training I've ever tried; mainly due to my inability to focus and commit time to train (hard), my dislike of climbing on plastic/wood and my inherent flexibility (particularly wrt hips/lower back problems) being a major block (perceived) to progression (donning flame proof overcoat for posting such gibberish in the "training" forums in 3, 2, 1)
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Sounds like a physio might be good for those shoulders!
Plastic can be awful- boards are better- but there's a few halfway decent walls around Leeds surely? It can be more motivations if you have regular partners too.
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hello mate, wheres the yoga class?
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Sounds like a physio might be good for those shoulders!
Plastic can be awful- boards are better- but there's a few halfway decent walls around Leeds surely? It can be more motivations if you have regular partners too.
Yep I have a good physio who has sorted LBP and hip misalignment issues and who helped with last year's shoulder impingement. Unfortunately I think I have maxed out the work health insurance physio options for the policy year.
My regular Physio is a big advocate of yoga; in fact many years ago when i first saw him about the LBP he said "I can tell you have practised yoga because you're spine is very healthy", which is the best advert for it IMHO.
I climb at the indoor walls in leeds when I *have* to but don't enjoy it, have never climbed hard indoors and am generally not motivated by it. Proper training seems to be just totally beyond me and my current physical condition prohibits it anyway!
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Hiya Krank, keeping ok? There's one at the Chapel on Mondays (I go to one over my way) but Pure in Macc seems well thought of.
You need to do more training. Chant 50 Om Shantis in penance....
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hello mate, wheres the yoga class?
Leeds ones i rate are "The Yoga Space" on Meanwood Road and "We Are Wellness" on Headingley Lane; loads more about the place including a well regarded one in Chapel A i have never visited.
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I climb at the indoor walls in leeds when I *have* to but don't enjoy it, have never climbed hard indoors and am generally not motivated by it. Proper training seems to be just totally beyond me and my current physical condition prohibits it anyway!
Are Caley/ the Cliff not accessible?
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Caley has been coated in the usual green slime of death for months now, almscliffe is go to for quick blasts as I am disinclined to travel too far with two busted flushes for shoulders! I am based in Otley and cycle commute past Caley Roadside most week days so get a good view of conditions. Exposed bits of Caley might actually be ok today at a guess.
Time for some yoga stretching. Less talk; more rock!
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how dare you Mr.J, im training hard, got my tuck planche coming along nicely now. Ive fixed my shoulder and had a session at the wall yesterday as well. love a good OM :lol:
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hello mate, wheres the yoga class?
Yoga makes you weak ;)
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Funny that because I don't really perceive it as a "problem" per se;I looked into this more out of curiosity to see how I wouldn't score based on various comments about my hyperactivity (particularly from parents in relation to my yoof). My other half laughed heartily and knowingly at the questions and evidently thinks i DO have a problem!
On a relevant, and I believe, (via my other half who's a Clinical Psychologist) technically correct note, the last 'D' in ADHD is "Disorder".
Much like OCD and ASD, it's only a disorder if it causes you problems or negatively affects your life. Many people would meet the criteria for diagnosis, but this doesn't automatically mean they have the disorder, or require treatment.
Ergo, if it's not a problem, you don't have ADHD.
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A former GF was convinced I had ADHD and printed out loads of material/tests for it... a good friend (not mutual) who was a child psychologist laughed quite alot when I told her this. She said "Tom, you're somewhere on the spectrum - but who isn't..." (bear in mind we're both academics... :) ) I'm a bit more obsessive, sometimes distant, sometimes blunt (I mean rude really!) than many other people ~ but as this generally expresses itself as a tendency to lurk under boulders occasionally swearing and chuntering away to myself I suspect its not an issue... :D
What Durbs said...
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Much like OCD and ASD, it's only a disorder if it causes you problems or negatively affects your life. Many people would meet the criteria for diagnosis, but this doesn't automatically mean they have the disorder, or require treatment.
Ergo, if it's not a problem, you don't have ADHD.
For sure.
I think if it's controllable you can play in your advantage, enthusiasm, lots of energy etc etc, I certainly did anyway. I wouldn't worry about getting a diagnosis if it's not causing huge life issues, at the end of the day, you just end up lableeing yourself with a term people don't really understand.
I personally find it really hard to concentrate and focus on one thing, hence the reason I probably never really or have stuck to a training plan. However, I am always doing something and changing things up, which I think has worked out for me.
I think it's worth being aware that in some cases it can lead to other issues in adulthood, anexity etc but whatever, the society we live in breeds those kind of conditions, mental health support is improving and access to help is great in my experience.
Hope that helps, fire me a pm if you want a chat
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I suspect if they bothered with such things in the schooling system in SA, i would have been diagnosed on the ADD spectrum, but the view there is if you are passing your grades they pay you no attention, if you are doing badly and fail, you just repeat.
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"Tom, you're somewhere on the spectrum - but who isn't..."
Everyone is on every spectrum of everything! This really annoys me.
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"Tom, you're somewhere on the spectrum - but who isn't..."
Everyone is on every spectrum of everything! This really annoys me.
Does it annoy you like having the books on your shelf arranged incorrectly? ;)
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Thankfully Mendeley keeps all my reading material in strict alphabetical order.
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On a relevant, and I believe, (via my other half who's a Clinical Psychologist) technically correct note, the last 'D' in ADHD is "Disorder".
Much like OCD and ASD, it's only a disorder if it causes you problems or negatively affects your life. Many people would meet the criteria for diagnosis, but this doesn't automatically mean they have the disorder, or require treatment.
Ergo, if it's not a problem, you don't have ADHD.
I would tend to agree with this position and my reason for asking the initial question was to explore other people's experience (professional or personal) with this. I am definitely guilty of big-league navel gazing introspection, but I thought it was an interesting thought experiment to firstly discover the criteria for assessment, and then think about my behaviour, how some traits might be linked to said condition and how my life could be different/improved (or more correctly my other half's!) by more effective proactive management.
I had a similar response to the above from one of my brothers who as it happens is a support worker for young people with behavioural problems. He also cautioned against seeing a psychiatric professional due to the potential to dig up other "disorder"-like issues that probably aren't an actual problem either (much as someone else also commented earlier i think). He also said that my hyperactivity expresses itself in my busy recreational pastimes which are probably an unconscious management strategy that has evolved over my lifetime thus far.
Thank you all for your contributions and advice, always useful to hear other people's perspectives. Ta
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As another aside, I'm likely biased, but I'd go for a psychologist over a psychiatrist every time.
The former are much less likely to give a specific diagnosis, as opposed to the latter who can then prescribe if they've got a diagnosed condition.
That is to say a Psyschologist would probably say you have "trouble maintaining focus for extended periods of time and sometimes struggle to blah blah blah", whereas a Psychiartrist would go "You have ADHD - take ritalin".
[/generalisations]
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Psychology isn't medicine, psychiatry is.
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Psychology isn't medicine, psychiatry is.
But at least psychology is a science.. ;)
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My two cents..
I have been diagnosed previously, at around 30, as quite ADHD. At that point, I was interested in trying to understand if I could potentially use medication to operate more "normally" - i.e. to spend less time feeling crushingly bored at work, and to be able to focus and concentrate better.
At times, my focus / concentration is woefully poor, and I find that it can frustrate me massively - imagine being almost pathologically unable to focus on tasks, even tasks that you want or need to focus on*.
As a result, I saw a psychiatrist, was diagnosed as severely ADHD and prescribed Ritalin.
It helped, in precisely the least helpful way. I was able to focus amazingly, but it meant that I'd get everything done in an hour and then have nothing to do for the rest of the day. Crushingly, crushingly boring. Pre-Ritalin, it would take me four to six 15 minute bursts of productivity to get everything done during the day - crushingly boring, but not quite as bad.
* Smartphones further inhibit my ability to concentrate - this has become an issue over the last year or so where I am bored at work and there is a culture of checking phones etc during meetings. My concentration span at the moment is probably worse than it's ever been, and it bothers me.
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My two cents..
I have been diagnosed previously, at around 30, as quite ADHD. At that point, I was interested in trying to understand if I could potentially use medication to operate more "normally" - i.e. to spend less time feeling crushingly bored at work, and to be able to focus and concentrate better.
At times, my focus / concentration is woefully poor, and I find that it can frustrate me massively - imagine being almost pathologically unable to focus on tasks, even tasks that you want or need to focus on*.
As a result, I saw a psychiatrist, was diagnosed as severely ADHD and prescribed Ritalin.
It helped, in precisely the least helpful way. I was able to focus amazingly, but it meant that I'd get everything done in an hour and then have nothing to do for the rest of the day. Crushingly, crushingly boring. Pre-Ritalin, it would take me four to six 15 minute bursts of productivity to get everything done during the day - crushingly boring, but not quite as bad.
* Smartphones further inhibit my ability to concentrate - this has become an issue over the last year or so where I am bored at work and there is a culture of checking phones etc during meetings. My concentration span at the moment is probably worse than it's ever been, and it bothers me.
Are we related?
I managed to turn that type of behaviour to my advantage and built a career around a perceived ability to multitask...
I am almost incapable of finishing a job, but read three books and post on UKB simultaneously whilst I should be doing something else.
Currently getting the stink-eye in McDonalds, for instance, and should be discussing poorly son.
Have said "hang on a sec" three times in this post...
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..
Are we related?
I managed to turn that type of behaviour to my advantage and built a career around a perceived ability to multitask...
I am almost incapable of finishing a job, but read three books and post on UKB simultaneously whilst I should be doing something else.
Currently getting the stink-eye in McDonalds, for instance, and should be discussing poorly son.
Have said "hang on a sec" three times in this post...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, me too - I've found that, when engaged, my levels of productivity are exceedingly high over short periods, where I will do more in an hour than colleagues will do in a day, but when not engaged / inspired, whole days will go by without productivity. Hence, I was an excellent, relatively happy strategy consultant, and am now a miserable, less productive corporate drone.
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Yeah, me too - I've found that, when engaged, my levels of productivity are exceedingly high over short periods, where I will do more in an hour than colleagues will do in a day, but when not engaged / inspired, whole days will go by without productivity. Hence, I was an excellent, relatively happy strategy consultant, and am now a miserable, less productive corporate drone.
I can relate to a lot of what you say in your posts wrt work; I have come to accept "peaks and troughs" in my focus and motivation at work. I have recently been experiencing a trough; hence my activity on here after a long lapse.
The context was one of the things I struggled with about the diagnostic questionnaire linked to at the top;I don't have a problem with organisation or procrastination if it's involving a task I am highly motivated to complete, but some/many work tasks just sit on the back burner indefinitely. When I do finally get on with stuff I bust a gut to get it done, usually because a deadline has passed and I have angry clients (it's almost like I need the jeopardy of a looming crisis to perform).
I honestly hope you can improve your work situation in some way to make it more tolerable (or at least less miserable); I've been there and it sucks.
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"Tom, you're somewhere on the spectrum - but who isn't..."
Everyone is on every spectrum of everything! This really annoys me.
Surely that's the definition of a spectrum...
Any, apologies for hijacking a very open, interesting and helpful thread!
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This is a fascinating thread...
My two cents..
I have been diagnosed previously, at around 30, as quite ADHD. At that point, I was interested in trying to understand if I could potentially use medication to operate more "normally" - i.e. to spend less time feeling crushingly bored at work, and to be able to focus and concentrate better.
At times, my focus / concentration is woefully poor, and I find that it can frustrate me massively - imagine being almost pathologically unable to focus on tasks, even tasks that you want or need to focus on*.
As a result, I saw a psychiatrist, was diagnosed as severely ADHD and prescribed Ritalin.
It helped, in precisely the least helpful way. I was able to focus amazingly, but it meant that I'd get everything done in an hour and then have nothing to do for the rest of the day. Crushingly, crushingly boring. Pre-Ritalin, it would take me four to six 15 minute bursts of productivity to get everything done during the day - crushingly boring, but not quite as bad.
* Smartphones further inhibit my ability to concentrate - this has become an issue over the last year or so where I am bored at work and there is a culture of checking phones etc during meetings. My concentration span at the moment is probably worse than it's ever been, and it bothers me.
I'm always flitting from one project to another (Dilettante someone once described it..) so in some ways being an academic can work really well for me (always juggling) though things often get left/wasted/forgotten about. I find attaching people to tasks helps me do them (e.g. this is for Chris, or I must review this for Jane etc..)...
I considered getting some ritalin on the black market to see whether it would give me some sort of super concentration boost, but never did - I always wondered what kind of mega academic I could be if I could focus all the time. So its really interesting your observation that by making you efficient it created a whole world of other problems!!
My own work/life patterns are characterised by days/weeks/months(?) of pontifcation and faffing about - interspersed by intense very short periods (may be an hour or an afternoon) where I get an enormous amount done. Though rather than see this as a problem, I now try and go with the flow - time has made me more confident and to feel less guilty about faffing about doing something else as I know I can (usually) get what needs to be done - done. Thats a horrible paragraph sorry! I've also come to appreciate that the non intense/faff time is really important for me to allow ideas to form, enable stuff to happen, to be creative. If there isnt that space then I'm too intense/focussed to work on something. I sometimes wonder if (putting a physicists hat on) I have a quantative theory of faff :)
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it's almost like I need the jeopardy of a looming crisis to perform
This is me in a nutshell.
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As another aside, I'm likely biased, but I'd go for a psychologist over a psychiatrist every time.
The former are much less likely to give a specific diagnosis, as opposed to the latter who can then prescribe if they've got a diagnosed condition.
That is to say a Psyschologist would probably say you have "trouble maintaining focus for extended periods of time and sometimes struggle to blah blah blah", whereas a Psychiartrist would go "You have ADHD - take ritalin".
[/generalisations]
It's not really appropriate to generalise what the two disciplines would do because it perpetuates the misunderstanding of what the roles are. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor in the UK. Some do take a specialist interest in psychology sometimes but they focus on people who are mentally ill. They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT). Unless the psychologist is also a medical doctor they need direct authorisation from one who is one. From what I understand of psychology their job in the UK is to understand behaviors and to suggest a plan to address this; like suggesting Ritalin through a GP/hospital doctor. It's also worth noting that the two disciplines can work side by side.
The confusion comes from the roles in America that we see in movies perhaps?
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They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT).
Just engineering - fixing problems not understanding why they are there ;)
(please note smileys...)
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They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT).
Just engineering - fixing problems not understanding why they are there ;)
(please note smileys...)
Oi!
All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...
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As another aside, I'm likely biased, but I'd go for a psychologist over a psychiatrist every time.
The former are much less likely to give a specific diagnosis, as opposed to the latter who can then prescribe if they've got a diagnosed condition.
That is to say a Psyschologist would probably say you have "trouble maintaining focus for extended periods of time and sometimes struggle to blah blah blah", whereas a Psychiartrist would go "You have ADHD - take ritalin".
[/generalisations]
It's not really appropriate to generalise what the two disciplines would do because it perpetuates the misunderstanding of what the roles are. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor in the UK. Some do take a specialist interest in psychology sometimes but they focus on people who are mentally ill. They give drugs to people who need it because they can be at risk to themselves and others. They also balance these drugs against other medication they might be taking (sounds like science to me TT). Unless the psychologist is also a medical doctor they need direct authorisation from one who is one. From what I understand of psychology their job in the UK is to understand behaviors and to suggest a plan to address this; like suggesting Ritalin through a GP/hospital doctor. It's also worth noting that the two disciplines can work side by side.
The confusion comes from the roles in America that we see in movies perhaps?
To a degree yes - though from my other half's experience (mostly in paediatric psychology), mostly due to time & budget restraints cuts in the NHS, medication is way over prescribed as it's essentially viewed as a "quick fix", when often for some conditions it's a mask rather than a cure.
Common example being depression where a lot of people get stuck on anti-depressants, whereas a talking therapy is clinically proven (and NICE guidelines best practise) to be more effective in long term prevention.
The difficulty is, at minimum you'd need 6x 1-hour sessions of CBT and other such therapies, compared to 1x 15-minute consultation and subsequent prescription from a psychiatrist.So for target-focused, money-limited NHS trust managers, which is the more efficient to pursue?
In some (usually more extreme) circumstances, as you say, both work together; e.g. if severely depressed, anti-depressants would help the client to function at a level where they can then engage with CBT.
My better half doesn't deal much with ADHD (or more likely it's co-morbid with other symptoms she does address), and this could well be that this is because it's one of the cases where medication is more effective than other therapies. Hold my hands up on this and go with an "I don't know".
To clarify - and perhaps I'm reading this wrong - but "they focus on people who are mentally ill" suggests psychologists don't?
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Just took that adhd test (bored at work...) and scored very low, nil points.
I'm unconvinced by this sort of self-assessment though. Perhaps someone who knows me well would score me differently?
The descriptions of people who procrastinate and do a hundred different things resonate with me. I find myself leaving important jobs to a late hour and then boshing it out. I don't think this is a particularly unusual trait, or indicative of anything 'disorderly'.
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Just took that adhd test (bored at work...) and scored very low, nil points.
I'm unconvinced by this sort of self-assessment though. Perhaps someone who knows me well would score me differently?
The descriptions of people who procrastinate and do a hundred different things resonate with me. I find myself leaving important jobs to a late hour and then boshing it out. I don't think this is a particularly unusual trait, or indicative of anything 'disorderly'.
normal life isn't it, unless you live in an episode of friends and enjoy your job...
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Very much +1 this:
I'm always flitting from one project to another (Dilettante someone once described it..) so in some ways being an academic can work really well for me (always juggling) though things often get left/wasted/forgotten about. I find attaching people to tasks helps me do them (e.g. this is for Chris, or I must review this for Jane etc..)...
and this:
My own work/life patterns are characterised by days/weeks/months(?) of pontifcation and faffing about - interspersed by intense very short periods (may be an hour or an afternoon) where I get an enormous amount done. Though rather than see this as a problem, I now try and go with the flow - time has made me more confident and to feel less guilty about faffing about doing something else as I know I can (usually) get what needs to be done - done. Thats a horrible paragraph sorry! I've also come to appreciate that the non intense/faff time is really important for me to allow ideas to form, enable stuff to happen, to be creative. If there isnt that space then I'm too intense/focussed to work on something. I sometimes wonder if (putting a physicists hat on) I have a quantative theory of faff :)
This is kind of what I was getting at earlier on in the thread about "peaks and troughs"; I've come to accept this over time and don't beat myself up about it so much. My current role lets me get into more strategic organisational busdev thinking/planning now, which I find helps; I have options for what I want to tackle on any given day to suit my mood/motivational status.
It took a while for me to realise that the "daydreaming" I was criticised for in academia is what I absolutely require for creative thought. I do a lot of work with numbers in a "pseudo-science" Consultancy way (i.e. massaging data to please clients/meet clients objectives - I'm a realist too...) and I can only think numerically for so long before I need to tune out and have a creative drift off.
Less so this!
I considered getting some ritalin on the black market to see whether it would give me some sort of super concentration boost.
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Just took that adhd test (bored at work...) and scored very low, nil points.
I'm unconvinced by this sort of self-assessment though. Perhaps someone who knows me well would score me differently?
The descriptions of people who procrastinate and do a hundred different things resonate with me. I find myself leaving important jobs to a late hour and then boshing it out. I don't think this is a particularly unusual trait, or indicative of anything 'disorderly'.
normal life isn't it, unless you live in an episode of friends and enjoy your job...
I would like to put it on record that I don't live in an episode of "Friends" but still find my job rewarding enough to continue turning up.
I'd rather be doing something else with my 5/7 if money was no object, but I don't want to give the impression that I believe there is some magical mental "state" of order that will make all of my (largely perception based) "problems" go away!
I'm really enjoying this thread (am I allowed to say that?) despite having some anxiety that many will simply judge me as a self interested navel gazing idiot.
Thanks again for everyone's input and comments. Any hints or tips on everyday management strategies gratefully received. Particularly related to "training" seeing as we're in the diet, training and injuries section!
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This is a really interesting thread - I'm at work so will try and add to it at greater length when I have some time. One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc. None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading. It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.
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Absolutely agree with this, which is why I referenced my family experience in the US in my first post. I struggle a bit with the phrase "normal behaviour"; what's the official phrasing of this - something like "within median population parameters"?
One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc. None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading. It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.
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This is a really interesting thread - I'm at work so will try and add to it at greater length when I have some time. One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc. None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading. It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.
Agreed. But I'm amazed at the similarities of personality types, amongst "the usual suspects" of the forum (though it shouldn't be a great revelation (despite obvious and numerous differences, I'm sure)).
I don't think you can count them as "normal" traits though, at least they seem to be minority characteristics in my experience. I for one, drive friends and family up the wall with behaviours similar to those described in this thread.
For interest.
How common do you all feel your behaviour is amongst :
A: your peers?
B: your family ?
C: Society at large?
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"the usual suspects" of the forum[/b] (though it shouldn't be a great revelation (despite obvious and numerous differences, I'm sure)).
Surely spending a lot of time on this forum in the first place is a characteristic of bored / daydreaming / procrastinating people, so probably not the best sample group.
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A: your peers?
B: your family ?
C: Society at large?
Normal.
Normal.
Normal.
I don't think I'm any different in any major way to anyone. Nor do I imagine probably are you, or anyone else on this forum. I'm sure you know people who drive you up the wall for whatever reason. That's just people.
That said, there's a guy at work (doesn't work for me, but within the larger company) who's been diagnosed with adhd and he's most definitely noticeably different and can be quite hard to deal with if you don't know - verbally aggressive, erratic, argumentative and very hyper-active sometimes. Very good at his job of building things. Total nightmare if ever left in a position where he can talk to clients.
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That said, there's a guy at work (doesn't work for me, but within the larger company) who's been diagnosed with adhd and he's most definitely noticeably different and can be quite hard to deal with if you don't know - verbally aggressive, erratic, argumentative and very hyper-active sometimes. Very good at his job of building things. Total nightmare if ever left in a position where he can talk to clients.
That sounds worryingly like me! 3 coffees are too many for me as I discovered this am. Definitely made me more irascible in a very dry meeting.
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This is a really interesting thread - I'm at work so will try and add to it at greater length when I have some time. One of the things that jumped out though is this idea of pathologizing normal behaviour e.g boredom at work, procrastination, day dreaming etc. None of these are pathologies and to do class then so is really misleading. It's what lies behind the mass mis-diagnosis of ADHD in children in the US.
And now in the U.K.
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Psychology isn't medicine, psychiatry is.
But at least psychology is a science.. ;)
A science that's appears unable to replicate any of its studies or tests. ;D
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And now in the U.K.
I actually work in this field and the over diagnosis of ADHD in children is statistically evidenced. When we assess children for this, we often like to observe the family too as in some cases a depressed parent with a reasonably active child will be false flagged as ADHD.
Since the rules have changed around benefit payments, we expect to see a drop in reported cases of ADHD and a rise in ASD as the former no longer provides an easy ticket to benefits whilst the latter now does :worms:
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And now in the U.K.
I actually work in this field and the over diagnosis of ADHD in children is statistically evidenced. When we assess children for this, we often like to observe the family too as in some cases a depressed parent with a reasonably active child will be false flagged as ADHD.
Since the rules have changed around benefit payments, we expect to see a drop in reported cases of ADHD and a rise in ASD as the former no longer provides an easy ticket to benefits whilst the latter now does :worms:
At least it has reduced the number of people who have diagnosed themselves as having Bi polar disorder. Who turn up for an assessment and ask if you can fill in their benefit claim form.
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A: your peers?
B: your family ?
C: Society at large?
Normal.
Normal.
Normal.
I don't think I'm any different in any major way to anyone. Nor do I imagine probably are you, or anyone else on this forum. I'm sure you know people who drive you up the wall for whatever reason. That's just people.
That said, there's a guy at work (doesn't work for me, but within the larger company) who's been diagnosed with adhd and he's most definitely noticeably different and can be quite hard to deal with if you don't know - verbally aggressive, erratic, argumentative and very hyper-active sometimes. Very good at his job of building things. Total nightmare if ever left in a position where he can talk to clients.
I think that's more or less my point...
Not being funny, that has me in "warrants investigation" but I'm quite sure I don't have ADHD.
My kids would all be in the extreme right column, mind you...
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Or, at least I was wondering how widespread these traits might be, in general and within our little oddball community.
I'm fairly sure my habits are more annoying than damaging, but I know it's not "normal".
One of the worst, is starting a conversation halfway through. That is somehow imagining I've already said/heard the opening part of the discussion, when in fact no one has spoken.
This also manifests as changing subject in the middle of a discussion, because I've run through all the scenarios I think are relevant, whilst talking and my brain has shifted to the next problem; leaving everyone else baffled.
If other people do this frequently, I've not noticed.
I agree entirely that this doesn't constitute ADHD or any other disorder beyond "Being an annoying git" Syndrome. I think it comes under that "Dilettante" heading, mentioned above.
All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...
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One of the worst, is starting a conversation halfway through. That is somehow imagining I've already said/heard the opening part of the discussion, when in fact no one has spoken.
This also manifests as changing subject in the middle of a discussion, because I've run through all the scenarios I think are relevant, whilst talking and my brain has shifted to the next problem; leaving everyone else baffled.
If other people do this frequently, I've not noticed.
I can definitely relate to both of these behavioural traits.
Also finishing other people's sentences because I'm too impatient to wait for the words to come from their brain to their lips - this was on the questionnaire i linked to in the original post.
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One of the worst, is starting a conversation halfway through. That is somehow imagining I've already said/heard the opening part of the discussion, when in fact no one has spoken.
This also manifests as changing subject in the middle of a discussion, because I've run through all the scenarios I think are relevant, whilst talking and my brain has shifted to the next problem; leaving everyone else baffled.
If other people do this frequently, I've not noticed.
I can definitely relate to both of these behavioural traits.
Also finishing other people's sentences because I'm too impatient to wait for the words to come from their brain to their lips - this was on the questionnaire i linked to in the original post.
I don't know if I'm slowing down as I get older, but my mum (and others I think) do this to me quite a lot! It's usually when I'm mulling through something while thinking about the best way to express it. It goes like:
Me: "I was thinking about x, y or z and.....[pause for thought]"
Mum: "X"
Me: "no"
Mum: "Y"
me: "No"
Mum: "Z"
Me: "For god sake mum, shut up minute and let me finish my own sentence, because you don;t have a clue about what I'm thinking" sheeesh!!!
Annoying!
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That's just conversations with impatient females.
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And now in the U.K.
I actually work in this field and the over diagnosis of ADHD in children is statistically evidenced. When we assess children for this, we often like to observe the family too as in some cases a depressed parent with a reasonably active child will be false flagged as ADHD.
Since the rules have changed around benefit payments, we expect to see a drop in reported cases of ADHD and a rise in ASD as the former no longer provides an easy ticket to benefits whilst the latter now does :worms:
What do you work in? My Mrs is a Clin. Psy. for CAMHS, on a split-post between ASD (and associated issues) and BEN (Behavioural & Educational Needs). Lots of family work as you mention. Her opinion coming from a different area is lots of over-diagnosis of ASD - partly driven as that's the easiest/fastest way to progress treatment. She's always quite surprised how keen some parents are to get a diagnosis, whereas the Dr's (at least the Psychologists) aren't big fans of attaching a label of "Autism" to kid.
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That's just conversations with impatient females.
despite having a given name often mistakenly considered feminine I am an impatient MALE.
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That's just conversations with impatient females.
despite having a given name often mistakenly considered feminine I am an impatient MALE.
Sorry, I was referring to Fultonius's post.
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The mind is a complex thing I think it's important to get accurate information on any potential condition so you can make steps to best manage it. Mental health is being taken more seriously these days which is a good thing. Good luck
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That's just conversations with impatient females.
despite having a given name often mistakenly considered feminine I am an impatient MALE.
Sorry, I was referring to Fultonius's post.
Non offence taken I was trying to make a joke (poorly)
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whereas the Dr's (at least the Psychologists) aren't big fans of attaching a label of "Autism" to kid.
That's it. Sticking a label on things can sometimes change how you perceive the thing itself... Just look at "best before" dates on kiwi's in a supermarket, they aren't even ripe yet but get thrown away.. Imagine telling a kid they have a condition, once they get that label it's there for life, could affect the way they see themselves, how their teachers/employers/insurance agencies/etc view them later in life so there's always a complex tension between what a clinician (like your missus) sees as a presentation and what is ethical to give as a diagnosis. Honestly though, working in care work, there isn't a day goes by where there isn't some sort of ethical debate to be had. Kind of what makes it interesting, that and actually getting to help people...
p.s. messaged you, have an idea who your missus is but might be wrong
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And now in the U.K.
I actually work in this field and the over diagnosis of ADHD in children is statistically evidenced. When we assess children for this, we often like to observe the family too as in some cases a depressed parent with a reasonably active child will be false flagged as ADHD.
Since the rules have changed around benefit payments, we expect to see a drop in reported cases of ADHD and a rise in ASD as the former no longer provides an easy ticket to benefits whilst the latter now does :worms:
What do you work in? My Mrs is a Clin. Psy. for CAMHS, on a split-post between ASD (and associated issues) and BEN (Behavioural & Educational Needs). Lots of family work as you mention. Her opinion coming from a different area is lots of over-diagnosis of ASD - partly driven as that's the easiest/fastest way to progress treatment. She's always quite surprised how keen some parents are to get a diagnosis, whereas the Dr's (at least the Psychologists) aren't big fans of attaching a label of "Autism" to kid.
I worked with a Clinical Psychologist who was an expert in diagnosing Aspergers. He found that some parents would push for this to be diagnosed as one of the alternative reasons for their child's behavioural problems would they were part of a dysfunctional family. :worms: