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1
chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by GazM on Today at 08:12:03 am »
moving hundreds of tonnes of rock

Literally?  :blink:
Yeah, I'm intrigued by this too. I've always assumed that if that much landscaping is needed then it's a bit hard to justify - that I'd be better offspending time and energy elsewhere - but perhaps I need to change my approach to unearth more new problems!
What did you do Liam? Any before and after photos? And how were you breaking rocks?!
2
chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by stone on Today at 07:08:19 am »
One take home to me is that we really ought to big-up route/boulder developers a lot more. As Ru said, kc and a couple of others have crafted many gems and unearthed whole crags, not to mention the amazing rebolting/stabilisation work on pre-existing routes. I'm not sure whether many people climbing at the Tor now realise that pretty much all of the glue-ins  were placed by kc. His glueing job on the jug at the start of Mecca was a nationally significant infrastructure project.

The thing is that many route developers don't seek "payment" for their efforts by way of permanently closing forlorn projects (eg I don't think eg kc ever has). Without even having the French convention of the developer naming a route, there is no other give-back from the community to developers. So, as a community, we indulge a very small minority of developers with decades-old closed projects by way of "payment" to developers at large, most of whom don't close projects for unreasonably long periods anyway.
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chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by abarro81 on Yesterday at 09:13:32 pm »
Good effort on all that work Liam, sounds like a mission!
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chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by spidermonkey09 on Yesterday at 09:10:09 pm »
Of course there are instances, but as the saying goes, the exception proves the rule.
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chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by Liamhutch89 on Yesterday at 08:39:33 pm »
Sorry Pete, but your lack of experience in moving hundreds of tonnes of rock is showing.

But I'll modify my position. Developing sport climbs usually takes more effort than developing boulders, but there are instances where this isn't true. My reasoning for posting in this thread was to argue that there isn't an agreed rule on the matter of closed projects. Some people put in a lot of work and close projects, others put in a lot of work and leave them open for everyone (this is my preference as a developer).

I saw 5 years mentioned somewhere in the thread. Surely that is a joke?

Edit - I misread. They thought 5 years was too long (thank god).
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chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by kc on Yesterday at 08:10:14 pm »
Exactly what Pete said. For context a short spot route with 8 bolts and a lower off might cost about £70 and that is with bolt fund discount so £100+ is not unusual. That's if you're using quality bolts of course.
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conditions reports (isitgreasy on twitter) / Re: Woodwell Conditions
« Last post by abarro81 on Yesterday at 07:56:56 pm »
Ace, thanks!
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chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by petejh on Yesterday at 07:46:21 pm »
W.a.C.  :)
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chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by Tony S on Yesterday at 07:27:44 pm »
Just to add, obviously, the dust from the drilling and the fumes from the glue are real killers too  :tease:
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chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by petejh on Yesterday at 07:17:00 pm »
I don't think it's fair to say that either sport or bouldering development requires more or less work and expense.

Nah, this doesn't hold water. Developing is hard and time consuming work. Developing sport routes is always going to be, on average, more work than boulders. Yes there are plenty of routes where the crag is easy access and you can walk to the top drop a rope, and the rock's immaculate, and vertical or less than, and the bolts go in quickly because you can access the rock not be swinging 6 feet away from the rock, and the moves are obvious. But this is maybe 1% of the time. And yeah there are boulders miles from anywhere which are massive and have to have huge cleaning efforts and elaborate patios, but again in a minority.

To illustrate why routes are harder to develop than boulders you only need to look at why boulders traverses are easier to work the moves on than sport routes. The difference in effort and logistics of working out moves, which dictates where bolts need to go, should be obvious.
And something you can pop a ladder against or drop a 5m bit of rope down is in a completely different league of workload/time to a 20m long and overhanging new route - which just to access the face to touch the holds, let alone get purchase to create opposing force to be able to drill bolts into rock - requires you to aid bolt/aid on gear your way up or down the cliff. Then you have to work the moves on a rope and realise you've misplaced the bolts for clipping onsight. Total ballache but strangely addictive.

Showing a lack of experience of developing routes there sorry Liam.
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