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the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Dave Flanagan on November 09, 2017, 11:52:42 am

Title: Training for slabs
Post by: Dave Flanagan on November 09, 2017, 11:52:42 am
Just back from Font and have the usual why am I so shit at climbing angst. As usual the issues stemmed from standing on shitty little crimps and polished smears. I remember talk years ago on here about a foot board that was for training footwork. Basically it was a small wooded board with lots of crap footholds that one do moves without hands on.

This was the old thread http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=4239.0 (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=4239.0).

I'm going to try and put something together, anyone have any advice?
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: bigironhorse on November 09, 2017, 12:48:28 pm
I have tried a few hands free problems recently and have been shocked at how bad I am at them! I definitely think that practicing these more will be good for my general slab climbing technique, I felt like I had learnt stuff about body position and how to stand on holds after only 20 mins or so. Maybe try something like this?
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: Johnny Brown on November 09, 2017, 01:34:01 pm
I've never been convinced you can learn decent footwork indoors. Find a friendly slab outdoors and just play at using less holds and worse holds. You should find once you dial the angle and body positions you can do similar moves with really marginal holds. For sustained smearing sequences it's as much about suspension of disbelief as technique.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: andy popp on November 09, 2017, 01:47:10 pm
I'm with Johnny on this, I just think its difficult hard to mimic really poor foothold - though the fact Nik thinks it can work should make us think again, given his abilities. I don't even know if its that important to have strong legs.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: SA Chris on November 09, 2017, 02:12:17 pm
For sustained smearing sequences it's as much about suspension of disbelief as technique.

This. Convince yourself you can actually stand on it until the point you are actually falling off it.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: GazM on November 09, 2017, 02:26:46 pm
For sustained smearing sequences it's as much about suspension of disbelief as technique.

Love that quote.  I'd certainly agree with that.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: 36chambers on November 09, 2017, 03:35:24 pm
just imagine your foot is a helicopter
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: fried on November 09, 2017, 04:43:59 pm
Get really strong crimping fingers, innit
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: jwi on November 09, 2017, 06:22:36 pm
Nah, it's all about having a good range of ankle dorsiflexion. Helps with toehooks as well.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: ghisino on November 09, 2017, 11:06:32 pm
my opinion, having climbed font slabs up to 7c  ;D

-suspension of disbelief +1000

-tons of patience and tries
-the right skin ans weather conditions (cold, very cold)
-Torture-proof pain tolerance for the occasional nail crimp and razor sharp gratton.
-decent crimping strenght, though it is useless without the above two lines.
-foot, calf and legs: having a little a lot of extra strenght is a big bonus. If moves don't feel desperate on a muscular level, it is much easier to concentrate on the subtle details.
-Ubertight Laspo noedge line, or a credit-card edger (eg blancos). Or green Ninjas.
-learning to fine-tune your arousal state (and to recognize symptoms of being over or under optimum). I find this point to be more suble (and important for success) than for other font bouldering styles.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: Johnny Brown on November 10, 2017, 10:12:02 am
-learning to fine-tune your arousal state (and to recognize symptoms of being over or under optimum). I find this point to be more suble (and important for success) than for other font bouldering styles.

This is a good point. The sort of aggressive approach that can work on steep rock isn't going to get to you anywhere here. Likewise getting over-excited (oh my god I'm going to do it!) often tenses you up and/or shakes you off.

That and keeping your heels low.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: SA Chris on November 10, 2017, 10:17:16 am
Plus Yoga.

It's all in the hips. If you can't get your hips over your foot you are screwed.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: andy_e on November 10, 2017, 10:52:44 am
Oh, I thought the arousal he referred to was to control how close you can keep your body to the rock via an extra appendage.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: ghisino on November 10, 2017, 11:12:22 am
-learning to fine-tune your arousal state (and to recognize symptoms of being over or under optimum). I find this point to be more suble (and important for success) than for other font bouldering styles.

This is a good point. The sort of aggressive approach that can work on steep rock isn't going to get to you anywhere here. Likewise getting over-excited (oh my god I'm going to do it!) often tenses you up and/or shakes you off.

That and keeping your heels low.

but at the same time, too relaxed and you will not crimp, push with your toes and engage your core hard enough.

not sure about low heels all the time, depends on the shoe and the foothold i guess..
Look at pics of this font slab legend and boreal ninja lover: high heels most of the time!
https://bleau.info/profiles/philippe.ledenmat
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: ghisino on November 10, 2017, 11:14:51 am
Oh, I thought the arousal he referred to was to control how close you can keep your body to the rock via an extra appendage.


too much arousal will definitely push you away from the wall, yet some may provode a subtle (and helpful) forward C.O.G shift.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: duncan on November 10, 2017, 11:59:01 am

-foot, calf and legs: having a little a lot of extra strenght is a big bonus. If moves don't feel desperate on a muscular level, it is much easier to concentrate on the subtle details.

Wad point to ghisino for slab knowledge.

Regarding leg strength, it's suprising the number of climbers who can't do a single leg squat / press / pistol easily and fluently. This would seem an absolute minimum for slab climbing.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: andy popp on November 10, 2017, 12:19:58 pm

-foot, calf and legs: having a little a lot of extra strenght is a big bonus. If moves don't feel desperate on a muscular level, it is much easier to concentrate on the subtle details.

Wad point to ghisino for slab knowledge.

Regarding leg strength, it's suprising the number of climbers who can't do a single leg squat / press / pistol easily and fluently. This would seem an absolute minimum for slab climbing.

I don't think I've ever been able to do one but, without making any great claims for myself, I was OK at slab climbing. Strong calves are probably more important.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: dave on November 10, 2017, 12:38:16 pm

-foot, calf and legs: having a little a lot of extra strenght is a big bonus. If moves don't feel desperate on a muscular level, it is much easier to concentrate on the subtle details.

Wad point to ghisino for slab knowledge.

Regarding leg strength, it's suprising the number of climbers who can't do a single leg squat / press / pistol easily and fluently. This would seem an absolute minimum for slab climbing.

Surely that would only be a requirement for very high steps or rockovers. For small steps there wouldn't be any more strength needed than climbing stairs.

I would agree that calf, ankle and foot strength would be more important.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: Johnny Brown on November 10, 2017, 01:09:27 pm
One of the things I've always liked about slabs is that objective measures of strength appear to be largely irrelevant. You'd be much better served investing the time in improving your palming skills.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: SA Chris on November 10, 2017, 02:00:31 pm
Not palming the aforementioned appendage hopefully.

I can still do a one leg squat on leg, but not the other since i sprained ankle badly a few years back.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: andy popp on November 10, 2017, 02:02:10 pm
Also, "slab climbing" covers a multitude of styles, angles, holds, and requirements. Pure friction climbing is relatively rare in the UK I think. Even on grit, climbs such as Obsession Fatale or Angel's Share are the exception. Is Etive pure friction? (I wish I'd made it there).
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: Will Hunt on November 10, 2017, 02:45:13 pm
I think for pure friction climbing, the Dubh Ridge on Skye is probably up there with the UK's finest. About 900m of boiler plate slabs above Loch Coruisk. Interspersed by lots of little ledges where you can pause before falling up the next set of slabs.

(http://skyeguides.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Steep-slabwork.jpg)

(https://images.on-this.website/22407_6489418814ffb0e71a19d9.jpg)
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: Muenchener on November 10, 2017, 02:51:55 pm
Loved that thing. Totally disproves any argument that easy routes can't be world class & amazing.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: dave on November 10, 2017, 03:04:36 pm
Dubhs ridge is amazing, but I would barely class it as friction climbing, it's like walking up a particularly steep disabled access ramp. Most of it you couldn't so much fall off as fall over.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: SA Chris on November 10, 2017, 04:55:01 pm
Is Etive pure friction? (I wish I'd made it there).

On the harder (E2 and up) routes there are sustained sections of pure slabbing yes.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: mark20 on November 10, 2017, 05:58:56 pm
Keep your heels low and still, wear the right shoes for the job
Can't think of any great training, just practise and messing around bouldering on easy slabs, Although one thing I sometimes do as a warm up is put one foot on a knee height rock and bounce onto it without flicking off your toes on the lower foot, or really digging with the high foot. Just try and float up from your knees/hip/core and try on various heights and from different angles, piroueting onto it etc. Obviously you look like a complete twat as you do this. But as slabs get thinner it's quite important to be able to move your weight onto your higher foot without stomping onto it or sharply pushing/flicking off the lower foot causing it to slip
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: user deactivated on November 11, 2017, 08:46:54 pm
I've never been able to get the heels low thing to work for me, don't know why as it makes sense but I always end up trying to stand on my tip toes. Remember Richie Patta saying keep your heels low on a day out to Caley about 20yrs ago. Still can't do it now.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: nik at work on November 11, 2017, 09:51:43 pm
I'm with Johnny on this, I just think its difficult hard to mimic really poor foothold - though the fact Nik thinks it can work should make us think again, given his abilities. I don't even know if its that important to have strong legs.
Andy you charmer  :-[

May be it works, maybe it doesn't :shrug: I can't imagine it does any harm.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: kelvin on November 12, 2017, 12:40:50 pm
 Currently in Font for a month with a tweaked ACL and a crocked shoulder, so easy slabs seem to be the order of the day - having knees that don't wobble would seem to be the single most important thing to me.
Hopping onto the better left knee is so much easier than the right one, I have strong calves from work but that's no use if the knees make circles everyone you move. Pistol squats are decades in the past for me but if I had good knees, that's what I'd be training after Font.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: teapot on November 23, 2017, 01:54:28 pm
I remember reading/hearing about a mini wooden (sandpaper?) slab training set up that Ben Heason used. I assume it was to build up calf muscle endurance. Crossed my mind to make one, when I was into grit slabs, but never bothered.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: andy_e on March 13, 2018, 10:33:26 am
Just found this great image

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5888e176d1758e783f89e2d6/596fc01c3a0411110f766779/596fc0448419c204e54e4277/1500565836965/HG_RH+7.jpg)

in this great article (https://www.theprojectmagazine.com/features/hard-grit) celebrating 20 years since Hard Grit was released.
Title: Re: Training for slabs
Post by: spidermonkey09 on March 13, 2018, 12:22:30 pm
Fantastic article!
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