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Elbow (golfers?) injury recovery advice please. (Read 63265 times)

mrjonathanr

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Thanks for your reply. The idea of management whilst climbing appeals to me a whole load more than cessation of activity. Not campussing etc isn't a huge loss as I like rock climbing, not campus boarding.   

As I've caught this early it may settle, I can report back in a while with my experiences although as suggested above, individual problems may present similarly but vary a lot.

Having multiple muscles with a common insertion on the medial epicondyle certainly disproves 'intelligent design' though.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:51:46 am by mrjonathanr »

mrjonathanr

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An update for interested parties... (ie if you have golfer's too)

I spent a month doing eccentrics for FCU without progressing, then went to the 919 clinic.

I have Pronator Teres not FCU afflicted so the treatment is outer rotation eccentrics as shown here:


with a twist..as instructed by John O. in fact..

1 set daily. 15 repetitions only. Work the weight progressively upwards till it's quite difficult to complete the set ..'to provocation'.

Sounds counter-intuitive to do scarcely 100 repetitions per week however it's working fine.  I've been pretty relaxed about climbing, bumbling on grit for a month though I've just built a patio (and mixed all the mortar) without pain so now am going to up the ante climbing and report back in a bit.

abarro81

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Anyone know anything about doing bicep curls with golfer's (FCU version mainly I think)? I always assumed it was out since attempting 1-armers makes the elbows feel bad, but I just tried some curls and it felt fine... I guess what I'm asking is: if it doesn't feel like it's aggravating the elbow then is there any reason not to do the odd set of curls?

saltbeef

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what stage is the elbone at?
I'd have thought if its not hurting its probably not an issue. if you think the stresses that climbing puts on your arm would be more than likely be way more than a bicep curl (assuming its not 70kg  dumbell!)

abarro81

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what stage is the elbone at?

I'm in the hideously-slow-but-generally-steady improvement stage. Though I've been in that stage for about 9 months... It's fine climbing 95% of the time, I can fingerboard ok so long as I don't overdo it but campusing or hanging on 1 arm make it hurt.
I'll give it a bash throwing the odd set in and see if it causes any deterioration.

(assuming its not 70kg  dumbell!)

I wish!

Probes

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I have a re occurring golfers elbow, had for maybe 4 or 5 years. Right on the crest of the boney knob on the radius. It got to the point where campusing was impossible and locking off caused considerable pain. Tried the twisty weighted stick method, which initially worked then started to give me wrist problems, from the twsting action. Reverse curls just aggravated it so they were a no. Then I tried the rolley string on stick device using it for 2 mins x 3 times a day for probably 3 months. I virtually have no problems now and if it starts to come back which it does every few months I just go back to  a few treatments a week and it sorts it pretty quick... 


 :whistle:   :smart:

http://crusherholds.co.uk/forearm-and-wrist-exerciser

 

saltbeef

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i'd see how it goes tbh, if it doesn't hurt it might help? who knows - nobody knows (having read ALOT on this over the last week)


but yeah i'd probably not crank 70kg on there!

Fadanoid

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Sorry for dragging up an old thread. I've been sat here for 20 mins trying to find some info to help id what I might be suffering from in the elbow department.

The videos and descriptions seem to talk of areas that differ to my elbow pain.

Quite simply if you put your arm on a table to have an arm wrestle, the very point in which your elbow touches the table is where I have pain, if anything about a centimetere towards the upper arm.

The descriptions all seem to describe pain towards the sides of elbows? Can anyone help from previous experience?

tresor

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Read this whole thread as golfers elbow was the reason I foudn this forum. There is a few posts in here about the medicin behind the injury but none of them contains what U've been told by doctors and physios here in sweden.

The pain is supposed to be caused by nervecells that has developed in the healing area of the tendoin. In the healing process blood vessels grows to feed the healing and in the same time these blood vessels give life to nervecells there they shouldn't be. The theory is that excentric excercises is better at getting rid of these blood vessels and hence starving the nervecells.

A friend of mine had pain in his Achille's tendoins for 3 years and nothing worked, NSAID's or excentric excercises.
Recently he found out of a treatment performed at a hospital localy to us that seems to be working extremly well. They inject a sclerosing liquid ( no idee what this means) at the actual tears in the tendoin, they find these with ultrasound, and the liquid will "cramp" the blood vessels and stop the blood flow thus starving the nervecells and kill them.

This is the explanation I got.

//Tresor

tomtom

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Golfers elbow is in the 'runnel' between the pointy bit of the elbow and the next bone nearer to your body (if you're holding your arm next to you). Nice set of exercises here by Tom Randall... was chatting to SteveR of this parish a few weeks ago who had chronic elbow issues for years - and these exercises sorted him out...

http://tomrandallclimbing.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/golfers-elbow-a-possible-solution/

Fadanoid

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I'll give these exercises a whirl for a week or two as it can't do any harm besides feeling like you're in some anti-masturbatory self discipline position.

TMR

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Would be well worth spending some time on the mobility wod site imo. The "voodoo band" stuff, although sounding weird seems pretty valid. If you dont fancy spending money on the bands iv'e made a reasonable imitation by opening up a used bike inner tube and cutting the valve out. The exercise below feels like the best deep tissue massage in the world, and going through the full range of motion hurts like hell (in a good way)


Fadanoid

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I have been doing these exercises for about 5 days now, along with press ups.
I have to say the pain has eased off considerably.
I even climbed for around 4 hours yesterday.

There may be something to this yoga lark  :-\

Rocksteady

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mrjonathanr

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I don't use UKC as a rule but that's fairly comprehensive.

My eccentric exercises weren't stopping pain, seemed to be getting worse.

Turns out (after seeing Jon) that they WERE effective, my pronator problems are now sorted. But now I've got FCU problems, so different exercises and more patience needed.

He recommended  tring  a different stretch. essentially yoga purvattanasana, except fingers point back, not forward. certainly seems to nip the epicondyle, so it's doing something. We'll see.

abarro81

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He recommended  tring  a different stretch. essentially yoga purvattanasana, except fingers point back, not forward. certainly seems to nip the epicondyle, so it's doing something. We'll see.

I've tried this a bit recently on his suggestion. No idea if it's helping or not, since the elbows have been doing well anyway, but it definitely gets a good stretch going on

spinmaster

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The yoga one was something I came up with when I was seeing John. Eccentrics did nothing and I accidently discovered that this was the only thing that I could find that hurt my elbows. So the theory was that we did that to cause provication and thus help heal the elbows.

I didnt seem to make any progress. I went to see a physio who was focused more on nerve issues and was told that this exercise hurt a lot becuase it put the nerves on stretch. Given that my neural tension is terrible thats why it hurt me so much. So I've now focused on nerve and back work and use the exercise to test progress, Certainly hurts a lot less now when I do it, but have a fair way to go before my nerves are back to normal.

Ged

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Some things I have found over the last 5 weeks whilst battling the classic golfers elbow.  I let it get to the stage where it was really sore.  Totally stupid and I should have stopped climbing hard and started rehab a LOT sooner.  I think this has led to it taking ages to heal, rather than probably being a quick fix. Hard trad in particular seemd to really mess it up, presumably because of all the locking off.

I tried all of the recomended eccentric wrist curls, and found it really hard to hit the sweet spot that caused the necesary slight pain in the tendon.  Then I found this article...

http://www.climbing.com/skill/prevent-elbow-and-shoulder-injuries/

where Dave Mac recomends doing a different eccentric exercise that doesn't need any weights.  I have found that exercise was much easier to get the desired pain, without having to lug round bg dumbells.  And it's easy to do whilst at work etc.

I've been massaging the spot with one of those armaid things, which also feels like it's ghelping.  As well as icing.  I've also been doing easy climbing, which seems to make it feel better, and seems to be recomended rather than total rest.  I upped it to doing some 7a's this week and it feels fine so far.


slackline

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Ged

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A bit, but I find it phenomenally uncomfortable! Mainly due to my face being pressed into the floor.  Will persist with it though as a fair few people seem to think it helped.

Seems to me so far though, that no one thing is the magic answer, but a combination of eccentric exercises, stretching, massage and icing will fix it.  It just takes a while to figure out the best specific ones for you.

Paul B

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My Evoluent 3 mouse at work seems to be making a massive difference to mine.

It has the added benefit of confusing anybody who tries to use my PC too. Endless fun.

erm, sam

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I have a trackerball mouse set on an inclined bit of plywood to reduce elbow stress. There is almost no rotation of the forearm, and I think it helped my elbow calm down..

tomtom

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I learnt to use the mouse with both hands - which helps with twingy bows... I also find touchscreens make things 'different' (not better not worse)...

slackline

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I just use a keyboard  :P :geek:

tomtom

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I just use a keyboard  :P :geek:

Bet you've got one for you phone too ;)

 

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