[petejh]

It is surprising how clownish he is yet people still take him seriously - Farage might be our very English version, he's more 'clown lite' in a biplane. Still got a lot of British votes.

Think you've made a good point but picked the wrong example to make it - surely Boris is the de facto, nailed on, gold plated example for this one.

Actually Boris was firmly in mind, he was my reason for accepting 'buffoonish' as per:

None of 'rich' buffoonish' or 'combed over' are deterrents to political leadership in any other western country.

I wanted a separate example for 'clown'.


Dave - just because Trump's opinions don't tally with yours (or mine), it doesn't mean he's not an extremely effective politician. I think Trump is actually a masterful politician. That should tell you a lot about what politics is - it's just the dark art of persuading people to believe what you want them to and to act in ways you want them to. And Trump has persuaded a lot of people. They might be simple people open to being turned toward some very distasteful views, but you can only work with what you've got.

People complain all the time about career politicians being interested in self-serving power for power's sake. Can't have it both ways and demand politicians must come from a professional political background when someone emerges from a non-political background and does well, just becasue you don't like his views.

[dave]

Are you really implying there is no happy middle ground between career politician parachuted into a safe seat straight out of a politics degree, and a bigotted billionaire trying to waltz into the whitehouse? Its not an either/or thing.

[lagerstarfish]

Democracy

it doesn't work - shove it in the 101 bin

[tomtom]

Democracy

it doesn't work - shove it in the 101 bin

We can't - because Shark is in control...

[lagerstarfish]

I should be in control

I'll take suitable action

my rabble army will be meeting in the usual places

[Oldmanmatt]

Supposedly from an 18th century  academic and primarily in review of the rise and fall of the Athenian Democracy.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loss of fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship.

The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years.
These nations have progressed in this sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance;
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to complacency;
from complacency to apathy;
from apathy to dependency;
from dependency back again to bondage"

I would put Western civilisation at around step 7/8....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tomtom]

Apparently Donald Trump stands for mandatory V grades.

[Fultonius]

Apparently Donald Trump stands for mandatory V grades.

Burn him. Heretic.

[petejh]

Are you really implying there is no happy middle ground between career politician parachuted into a safe seat straight out of a politics degree, and a bigotted billionaire trying to waltz into the whitehouse? Its not an either/or thing.

Ha! I'm not implying anything remotely resembling that!? That would be the happy middle ground but it's irrelevant to this point.

I'm clearly just pointing out that your implication that 'the system' is somehow 'crazy' just because it allows someone without a career in politics to potentially become elected, is a wrongheaded way to argue against the lack of virtues of Trump for president. There's nothing wrong per se in a system that allows a naturally strong politician - Trump, despite being a cunt is evidently a good politician - to flourish.

Blame Trump and his many supporters for being what they are, but not the system.

[dave]

I didn't actually imply that did I. I was commenting on that fact that the system allows wealthy loudmouth blowhards manoeuvre their way directly into a position of immense power. For all its problems a parlimentary system for arriving at a head of state/government does, in general, seem to act as a buffer against out and out cunts. Although I will retract that statement if Farage ever makes it as PM.

As for classing Trump as a "good" politician, that remains to be seen. Maybe "successful".

[petejh]

What amazes me is that America has such a fucked up system that some rich buffoonish comb-over clown like Trump is potentially in the running to be head of state. On the basis that he's got stacks of cash and nothing else to bring to the table, unless you consider wanting to fuck your own daughter to be a virtue. He's got no background in politics whatsoever, yet stands a chance of gaining arguably the most powerful political role on the planet. It's just fucked up.

Say what you want about reptiles like Cameron but at least we have a system whereby the vaguest veneer of credibility is maintained, i.e. he's had to actually do enough groundwork arselicking within a party to get parachuted into a safe seat and get elected and serve as an MP first, do some time in the system, put his cock in the mouth of the occasional dead pig etc.

It sounded like both.

I agree with you a little bit on the wealth buys power part - it's vulgar and probably corrupt but then what isn't when it comes to power. I don't agree entirely though - to turn it on its head, what if, say, Elon Musk was the one using his billions to 'maneuver their way into a position of immense power'? Would you still be so self-righteously outraged if, instead of bigoted rightwing bile, the policies instead were to transform the US into a bastion of clean energy innovation and infrastructure plus other progressive ideas - just because their proponent got there via wealth? I think Trump is wrong for lots of reasons but there are plenty of elected career politicians just as wrong.

As for the background in politics part, meh, I couldn't give a shit and it shouldn't matter. I think political intelligence is something some people have as a natural talent, like other natural talents that can be also be taught.

And by 'good' politician I didn't mean morally good but successful.

[lagerstarfish]

Supposedly from an 18th century  academic and primarily in review of the rise and fall of the Athenian Democracy.

"... with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loss of fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship."

I'm your man 

from Monday, I'll be recruiting/commissioning a team of experts to run the economy. I'll probably use UKB membership as a starting point

DT90 is in charge of the interview process - anyone who survives that is incapable of bullshitting the nation

[Rocksteady]

Probably had this before, but my 101 entry for this week is the office 'hero', stalwartly dragging their germ-riddled carcass into work to soldier on and spread their plaguey-version of Christmas joy to the other miserable occupants of the workplace.

(1) The company will doubtless survive without you for a day or two, especially since when you are '100%' you mostly spend the time making and taking calls about your kitchen extension;
(2) Despite your puffy-eyed, mucus-stifled protestations that you aren't infectious anymore, you definitely are. Go home and stay there until you stop spluttering flu-droplets everywhere.

[SA Chris]

(3) You can also spare everyone from listening to you going on about terrible you feel, describing all your symptoms in graphic detail, blowing your nose loudly every minute and using the phrase "I've taken so many pills I should be rattling"

[Jaspersharpe]

People who order frothy milk drinks masquerading as coffee in a pub, meaning that the barmaid/man has to spend 10 minutes twatting about with a coffee machine to produce four cups of sickly muck when I just want to order a PINT.

Go to COSTA if you want to drink your sludge not a PUB which is for drinking BEER. 

[lagerstarfish]

you are clearly going to the wrong sort of "pub"

[Jaspersharpe]

you are clearly going to the wrong sort of "pub"

Not normally but more and more pubs and bars serve this shit. It should be banned.

[lagerstarfish]

simply ridicule the offinding punters, they'll soon learn

if they seem a little slow on the uptake, go straight to abuse

[Nibile]

Or move to Italy.

[a dense loner]

I'm outraged at Jaspers post about ordering pints! Only last night I drove past him at 5.20pm walking into The Tramshed public house, an hostelry where they serve only bottled beers!!! Yours, Shocked of Sheffield

[tomtom]

He was going there for a coffee.

[Mike Tyson]

The misuse of remote controls.

I've been through this with my mum, and now my other half. Why bother having a remote control for something, if you're going to put it down next to the item it controls remotely, meaning you then have to do the thing the remote control was designed to put an end too, and get up off the fucking sofa and walk over to the bastard TV to turn the cunt on!

ARGH!!!!!! 

[slackline]

Better to turn the TV off than leave it on standby, and by always leaving the remote by the TV when its turned off you always know where it is when you walk in the room to watch TV and can just pick it up on your way to the sofa.  Avoids the need to rummage down the side/back of the sofa muttering "Where's the fucking TV remote?".

[Oldmanmatt]

That's fine for room 101, but we need a new circle of Hell for kids that wander off with remotes.
Remotes that are found (if luck is with you) as far afield as the garden or the back seat of the car...



All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. Looking at you, here, Dense.

[SA Chris]

One of ours (luckily tv and digi box remotes are mostly interchangeable) disappeared for about a month and was found in the back of a bookshelf. I had to download a remote control app onto my phone for accessing iPlayer though.