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Slab skills... (Read 30115 times)

Fiend

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Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 01:50:02 pm
One for Johnny Long et al.

I can understand how to improve at most angles of climbing as the physical demands are more obvious. But, how does one train for / become good at slabs?

How are some people so good at slabs and others aren't, particularly friction slabs where the role of strength is less relevant?

For example, take something as pure as, say, Angel's Share. Let's start from the gutter with just the slab remaining. I step onto the first non-existent smear, I feel my balance, get in the best-feeling position, maximise the foot contact, feel what end point I'm aiming for, and stand up....and slip straight off. A good slab climber does the same thing, stands up, and sticks - how?

This is something that has always bemused me. Basically it boils down to standing on smears. Me and said good climber, same rubber, same smear, similar body shape, differences in strength are irrelevant....so how come one can do it and the other can't??

Thinking about it - does it boil down to precision?? I.e. there will be one perfectly correct position for the body and balance (taking into account all aspects of that) that will allow that person to stick to that smear. And all other positions will not quite be enough. So, said good climber is in touch with their body and slab climbing enough to find that exact position....and I am not - ios that it??

If this is it, or whatever other factors are involved, how can on attain that?? (Aside from the obvious "practise"!).

r-man

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#1 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 01:55:31 pm
Quote from: nik at work
One of the best ways to improve footwork is to try tolimb slabs without your hands and try and climb vertical stuff with only one hand. This forces you to really think about your foot positioning and the orientation of the forces you put through your feet. You will be surprised by:
a) the steepness of slab it is possible to climb no-handed
b) the amount of times you can take both hands off on a vertical wall with a bit of foot trickery.
When I started really climbing (i.e. doing it lots) I quickly realised that I was never going to be that strong or flexible or a big stamina monster (I have none of these things natrually and I'm too lazy to train properly) so I really focused on technique and footwork. My top secret training device is a piece of ply wood about 3 foot high by 4 foot wide which I have in my garage covered in a range of slopy holds. Rather than mounting it in the air and hanging from it I have it set up at a slabby angle on the ground. I then jump onto it with both feet at the same time and try and land in balance on the footholds without using my hands. Doing this is very frustrating and hard but it will give you killer balance andordination with your feet.


Bonjoy

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#2 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 02:00:52 pm
 It sounds daft, but my slab climbing vastly improved when I tried using comfortable fitting boots rather than the usual crazily overtight ones I used to always go for.

Johnny Brown

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#3 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 02:03:27 pm
Simplest advice on sticking to smears is keep your heels low as possible. Second thing is really put some time into squeaking your boots properly.

Beyond that it comes down to body position, awareness of centre of gravity and belief. Confidence in your feet sticking is a feedback loop thing, not having faith in the smear invariably leads to a worse body position, the smear doesn't stick, it gets worse next go...

Johnny used to liken hard slab moves as like a 3'd version of those electric-hoop and wiggly-wire games. You have to move your centre of gravity through a virtual tube that takes you from one stable position to another without destabilising either. Of course on the hard stuff the tube gets smaller and the stable positions further apart.

r-man

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#4 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 02:04:55 pm
The punter's perspective:

I've made a footboard before, and played on it for a week or two, but never seriously trained.  I did find that it was amazing how much you could improve at standing on tiny holds without using hands at all. I went from floundering hopelessly at said technique, to finding it quite easy. I'm sure if I kept it up, it would have really improved my slab climbing.

In conclusion, it's a knack. You can't stand on smears by trying to figure them out, you just have to let your body get used to the idea.

Bonjoy

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#5 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 02:15:27 pm
 I think part of the psycological difficulty of slabs is the fact that a fall will be a sudden slip. When you fall off normally on other types of climb you generally have a bit of warning, so you climb relaxed as you arn't deveoting mental effort to anticipating and controlling a fall. It can be hard to relax and climb well when you are half expecting to ping off in an unpredictable manner at any second. For this there is no substitute for just doing a lot of slab climbing. Eventually you learn to fall and land well and hence relax in the knowledge that a slip isn't a major problem and your subconcious landing reflexes will cope if it happens.

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#6 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 02:39:19 pm
Good comments lads, makes a lot of sense to me.

John Cooke

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#7 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 02:46:34 pm
I can second the importance of boots there. It wasn't until i bought a decent pair that fitted right (i.e. weren't stupidly tight, and actually flexed!) that i learnt how to stand on smears, not that i'm any slabmeister like, but the past year or two i've got much better. I've found you need the right degree of wear on a shoe also, and a good decent squeek is critical.

Some things that have made a difference:

Boots (as mentioned) - size, wear, squeeking
Centre of gravity - hips close in and over your foot
Timing and momentum in some cases
Keeping your heels low
If using pebbles, crimping your big toe to force your shoe to bite
Really trusting your feet!

Please correct me if i've any of this wrong!

Certainly practice makes perfect. The boulder slabs at the roaches i've found really good for wiring technique. In particular the forest slab (near the hut) and the C3PO and Bobba Fett slab.

Any other good boulder slabs?

SA Chris

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#8 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 03:12:09 pm
I think how you stand on the slab is especially more relevant if you are relying heavily on your feet. Smearing straight on, with foot turned sideways, or even edging on somewhere you would expect to smear on can make all the difference to upward progress. I reckon there are usually more various ways to stand on a poor foot placement than there are to use a handhold, some more effective than others.

Idol eyes

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#9 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 03:22:40 pm
Faith and Friction, have you must young Jedi...

Eddies

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#10 Re: Slab skills...
February 22, 2007, 06:38:52 pm
I enjoy slabs but my mates arent, everytime i get on a slabby problem I get comments like 'Ohh Watch your teeth mate' and 'We dont wanna have to run around picking yer teeth up after you'

By advise is to get the mental side wired first, then worry about your feet and all that later!!

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#11 Re: Slab skills...
February 23, 2007, 08:55:22 pm
I find a good wire brushing of holds makes slabs feel easier.....

Seriously though, practice practice.  Know the rock.  You are one with the rock.  The rock is your friend.
Love from Mr Dawes  xx

Idol eyes

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#12 Re: Slab skills...
February 24, 2007, 08:41:18 pm
Jonny Woodwards ascent (2nd?) of Hall of Mirrors, Glacier Point Apron, Yosemite required the switch from Boreal Classics to EBs, This article is inspiring, can any one find it...

andy popp

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#13 Re: Slab skills...
February 25, 2007, 09:01:13 am
Its been said before, by everyone, but just climb lots of slabs. Its a learnt thing. Forget Johnnies' metaphysics, they won't help and might apply in only a tiny handful of cases. A lot of stuff he suggests sounds outrageous but turns out OK. He told me once he'd top roped Obsession Fatale no handed, which sounds mad, but when I tried it was actually fine (and good fun). You might be able to train as well, I used to do hundreds of reps on the calf raise machine at Stoke gym - not that I ever developed any calf muscles worth the name. Stone Crusade (is that right, the Vermin book) has interesting stuff from some slab bouldering place in California - Mt. Rubidoux maybe - about the lengths some people went to get their boots in prime condition, so yeah, squeek your boots to fuck.

grimer

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#14 Re: Slab skills...
February 25, 2007, 11:18:15 am
Hi Andy remember going to Burbage with Jonny Woodward one day. He top roped The Braille Trail. I was amazed by the way he just walked along the smears, he seemed to have so much in reserve on them.

andy popp

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#15 Re: Slab skills...
February 25, 2007, 12:40:27 pm
Grimer, you don't remember everything. I was with you, you fool. We'd been down the dale all day but you said we had to get back to Burbage to meet someone but wouldn't tell me who. I was in awe when we swung into the carpark to find Johnny there. You're right, he climbed across the traverse beautifully (and it was summer, incidentally he'd just done Shirley's Shining Temple in v. hot weather). It was a great evening, very relaxed and a lovely sunset. He was keen to see the next wave of grit routes that had been done since he left for the states. Having walked the traverse he fell off the stand up at the end and then sacked if off (I desperately shook my way across and up in front of this guru). His whole attitude was great. He'd enjoyed what he'd done and was happy. I don't think I've met a top climber with less apparent ego - strange considering his early enfant terrible reputation.

GCW

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#16 Re: Slab skills...
February 25, 2007, 12:56:51 pm
Grimer, you don't remember everything. I was with you, you fool.
I think that's what he meant here Andy, just forgot the ? at the end and some basic Grammar.
Hi Andy.  Remember going to Burbage with Jonny Woodward one day?
Punctuation, eh?  :lol:

andy popp

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#17 Re: Slab skills...
February 25, 2007, 02:49:31 pm
See, Uncle was right all along. Grammar IS important.

grimer

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#18 Re: Slab skills...
February 25, 2007, 06:32:50 pm
Grammar IS important.

Oh, well I wouldn't say I'm all that important really, but thank you.

Fiend

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#19 Re: Slab skills...
February 28, 2007, 05:21:48 pm
Have been practising this recently or at least trying to, playing around on The Tiny Slab at Burbizzle Nozzle. Paying particular attention to squeaking my shoes, keeping my heels low, staying relaxed and trusting the friction, etc...

It was quite a disturbing and demoralising experience  ???

The most notable thing that it felt very random as to whether a smear would stick. For example on something I found tricky, the same smear in what felt like the same position, could slip immediately 5 times, then stick perfectly 5 times....whoop I've got the feel? No....then slip immediately 5 times... Hard to let it sink into my brain when it behaves differently.

The things that did have some consistency: Tightening my shoes helped noticably. And if the smear didn't feel right (even if it looked identical to the previous times it was used), it was more likely to go.

Ho hum, more practise again and again...

Johnny Brown

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#20 Re: Slab skills...
February 28, 2007, 05:42:38 pm
Quote
And if the smear didn't feel right (even if it looked identical to the previous times it was used), it was more likely to go.

Indeed. I'd recommend placing your foot as precisely as you can by eye, then don't look at it again. Certainly don't stare at it as you weight it, very counter-productive.

Quote
then stick perfectly 5 times....whoop I've got the feel? No....then slip immediately 5 times...

The two facts are usually related - don't ever get complacent and think 'oh I've got it now.'

The slab right of Brad's arete at Eagle tor is a great one for practicing smearing. That burbage one is getting a bit polished.

a dense loner

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#21 Re: Slab skills...
February 28, 2007, 06:50:39 pm
practice fiend, and i'm not giving out advice here

Paz

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#22 Re: Slab skills...
February 28, 2007, 07:55:36 pm
Johnny Dawes might actually have a valid scientific point with his meta-physics electro-wire tube thing.  With the stability. 

A lot of standard smearing advice tells you to get as much surface area in contact with the rock as possible - "to maximise the friction".  If you have a constant normal force uniformly distributed over a surface area of constant coefficient of friction, supported by a constant friction force then it doesn't matter how much planar surface area you;'ve got - the friction is the same.  Unless there's somehting funny going on with vectors, or supporting a torque through friction, or uneven friction or surface shape and no doubt a whole host of other real life disclaimers. 

But the more surface area you've got, the larger your `base is' so you're more stable like a pyramid, as your centre of gravity has to move further before you over balance and need to pull in with your arms.

I think the size of the perturbations you a a climber produce to this simple stability thing also increases, as your balance (or general skill) decreases, and as you get more drunk.  That's kind of what happens during slack lining.  You not only learn to correct the pertubrations, but not to produce them in the first place, or correct them earlier before they become as large. 

I'm sorry if I've gone on - it's only about three lines of maths.

GCW

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#23 Re: Slab skills...
February 28, 2007, 08:00:16 pm
Johnny Dawes might actually have a valid scientific point with his meta-physics electro-wire tube thing.  With the stability. 

A lot of standard smearing advice tells you to get as much surface area in contact with the rock as possible - "to maximise the friction".  If you have a constant normal force uniformly distributed over a surface area of constant coefficient of friction, supported by a constant friction force then it doesn't matter how much planar surface area you;'ve got - the friction is the same.  Unless there's somehting funny going on with vectors, or supporting a torque through friction, or uneven friction or surface shape and no doubt a whole host of other real life disclaimers. 

But the more surface area you've got, the larger your `base is' so you're more stable like a pyramid, as your centre of gravity has to move further before you over balance and need to pull in with your arms.

I think the size of the perturbations you a a climber produce to this simple stability thing also increases, as your balance (or general skill) decreases, and as you get more drunk.  That's kind of what happens during slack lining.  You not only learn to correct the pertubrations, but not to produce them in the first place, or correct them earlier before they become as large. 

I'm sorry if I've gone on - it's only about three lines of maths.

Did anyone actually understand a word of this?!?!?!!?   :shrug:

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#24 Re: Slab skills...
March 01, 2007, 09:42:21 am
Go and play on some slabs using no hands, this is how you will learn.

 

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