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Peak bolt fund, donation ideas (Read 14620 times)

Bonjoy

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Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 01:27:26 pm
 Anyone who climbs Peak sport routes would have to agree that there is a lot of re-equipping needs doing. The Yorkshire bolt fund is a shining example of just how well such a fund can work. To my knowledge the Peak doesn't have a bolt fund. All it takes is a few well situated donation points, a bank account, a few basic rules (i'd say that the fund should only be used for re-equiping i.e. new routes come out of your own funds) and someone willing to look after/dish out the fund.
 I have a good drill I don't mind lending out to people I trust, with the usual 'you break it you pay for it' caveat. As I work in roped access I may be able to get a good price on bulk purchase of bolts and hanger. I'm not keen to do the fund keeping though, i'm a bit too crap and disorganised for that.
 Donations wise a paypal button on here could be a good start (see poll),plus a few collection boxes in suitable places (climbing walls, climbing shops).
 Thoughts anyone?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 09:31:22 am by Bonjoy »

Bubba

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#1 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 01:55:53 pm

It's worth noting that you don't need to be a paypal user to use a paypal donation service - any normal card will do...

Bonjoy

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#2 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 02:09:32 pm
I'll delete that option then

Fiend

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#3 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 02:40:13 pm
I will have to say "I don't know" because although I respect the effort people put in, I am not really into British sport climbing, and I don't know what re-equipping would be taking place on routes I'm actually likely to climb...

Paul B

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#4 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 02:44:59 pm
I think its a good idea and i agree with the sentiment that a fund should be used for re-equipping rather than new routing. The number of shoddy lower offs in the peak is pretty worrying.  I got shot down pretty heavily on ukc suggesting this but maybe a set of topo's for the area's concerned could be avalaible after donations have been made?
Jon - have you got any idea how the accounts would work? when i was looking to set up a woodie that side all seemed very complicated.

Bonjoy

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#5 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 02:50:10 pm
Quote
I will have to say "I don't know" because although I respect the effort people put in, I am not really into British sport climbing, and I don't know what re-equipping would be taking place on routes I'm actually likely to climb...
Well some of those 7as you listed earlier may well need new bolts. The 7a+ route next to Armistice Day is a prime example of a good route in urgent need of new bolts.
 What got equiped would be dictated by who was motivated to do what. There'd be nothing to stop you re-equiping something you had particular interest in, assuming you can use a drill and follow simple instructions.

Bonjoy

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#6 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 02:57:21 pm

Jon - have you got any idea how the accounts would work?

 No idea really, but here's how it works for the Yorkshire fund.
Quote from: Dave Musgrove on an old UKC thread
The Yorkshire Bolt Fund is held in an account of that name with Nat West Bank. I believe the full title of the account type is 'Community Current Account' and available to Registered Charities, Unincorporated Clubs or Societys, Voluntary Organisations etc.

We pay no interest, bank charges or transaction fees (so long as the account is in the black) but of course get no interest on deposits. I get regular monthly statements, a cheque book and paying in book.

I have opened trade accounts with various suppliers (Hilti, Entre-prises, DMM, etc. ) and keep records of all income and expenditure on a simple computer spreadsheet. I also keep all paper records in a chronological box file.

Dave

Paul B

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#7 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 07, 2006, 03:11:28 pm
that sounds straight forward enough to me.

Sam

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#8 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 13, 2006, 09:28:38 am
Hi all, this sounds like a good idea would be grateful to those offering to set it up. In a slightly different vein, what is the protocol with regards to re-bolting routes?  Been doing lots in Cheesy Dale recently and some of it, specifically stuff at the Cornice which is saturated for 6 months of the year, is getting very badly corroded. I've got access to all the stuff, I know what I'm doing with regards to placing anchors so should I just go and do it? A prime contender would be Cordless Madness & Unleashing the Wild Physique as the lower bolts are frankly dangerous. Also who nicked the hanger off the first new bolt on Clarion Call? Surely if hangers are in short supply stripping the old ones makes more sense?

Ru

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#9 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 13, 2006, 09:39:18 am
If you know what you're doing, just go and do it. There's no committee that needs to approve it or anything. I think this is one thing that's stopping re-equipping - everyone presumes there's some due process that they're not aware of.

Bonjoy

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#10 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 13, 2006, 10:07:10 am
 Nice one, I'd say go for it.
 A few things from my own experience. Appologies if this is all obvious to you already:

Only use stainless. If you have some bolts and you aren't sure if they are, try a magnet, stainless doesn't stick to magnets. Not always true.
 Use 10mm x 100mm anchors as a minimum
 Hammer test the area you are to place a bolt on to make sure it is solid and not hollow. Clear any surface flakyness off with hammer.
 Place new bolt a safe distance from the old one, i'd say at least 180mm away, some would say more.
 If you can't find solid rock in the right place or sufficiently far from the old bolt consider using a long 12mm resin bolt. Recently i've used cut sections of threaded bar, cut them longish (200/300mm) with a diagonal cut at the far end, this stops it being possible for them to be screwed out if screwing off a tight nut.
 Make sure the new bolt is in a good clip position. It helps to work this out if you do bolting in rock boots with all your heavy kit hung on a second rope, so you can pull onto the rock easily to feel positions.
 Don't place bolts close to aretes or cracks.
 Overdrill the holes, so in future when the bolt is defunct it can be hammered in flush (or better still recessed and filled over with resin).
 Try to remove the old bolts (must get round to doing this on Thormens  :oops:)
 Make sure that the hanger is sat straight on flat rock and try to drill straight, this avoids spinning hangers in future. Nyloc nuts are also good for avoiding nuts working loose over time.
 Don't under/over tighten nuts. I stop when they squeek/click on turning (you'll know what I mean if you hear it). The most foolproof way is to use a torque wrench.
 Clean drilled hole out before use with hole blower and hole brush (or at least one).
 !!When hammering the bolt in, make sure the nut is screwed on at least flush with the top of the bolt, keep screwing it on if it works loose. If not the threads will seize when you try to tighten the bolt and the unsafe bolt will be stuck in place and hard to remove!!
 If you are there rebolting the route you may as well bring cleaning (and glueing gear if crucial holds are crumbly/wobbly) and sort the route out fully.


 Lord knows why someone stole the hanger off Clarion Call, stupidity springs to mind.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 10:32:50 am by Bonjoy »

Ru

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#11 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 13, 2006, 10:18:57 am
Only use stainless. If you have some bolts and you aren't sure if they are, try a magnet, stainless doesn't stick to magnets.

Careful with this, some stainless steels are magnetic depending on whether nickel is added. The magnet test is not a good indicator of whether a steel is stainless.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 10:24:17 am by Ru »

Bonjoy

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#12 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 13, 2006, 10:31:26 am
 I'll edit my post then, ostensibly to avoid anyone making the same mistake, but mostly to conceal my own stupidity  :whistle:

Sam

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#13 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
July 13, 2006, 11:09:11 am
everyone presumes there's some due process that they're not aware of.
OK ta, just didn't want to wade in like some amateur.  Lots of people seem very keen on "someone" re-bolting routes - see rockfax database for inane comments. I think laziness and why should I mentality afflict many, plus uncertainty/unwillingness on how to do/learn to although I guess we can all be guilty of this.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 11:44:58 am by Sam »

curly ben

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#14 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
August 01, 2006, 11:30:50 am
Sam is that mr sam ring? if your going out on a bolting adventure give us a shout would be quite keen to learn some knowledge on that front.

jfw

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#15 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
August 01, 2006, 12:42:54 pm
i just voted probably not - haven't been sport climbing in the peak yet...would like to - anyway i voted no to "would i be likely contribute to a paypal link on this site" - not the idea of a bolt fund per se - reckon i'd be much more likely to donate to collection boxes in shops/walls than online - dunno why...

Bonjoy

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#16 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
August 01, 2006, 12:46:10 pm
 Would/will have these also, assuming the shops and walls will take them.

Slide

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#17 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
August 07, 2006, 12:17:19 pm
i'll take one in my shop, i'll just put a moutain rescue sticker on it!! they wont know the difference anyway and it is kind of mountain rescue; prevention better than the cure and all! :whistle:

Fiend

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#18 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
August 08, 2006, 10:24:45 am
Quote
I will have to say "I don't know" because although I respect the effort people put in, I am not really into British sport climbing, and I don't know what re-equipping would be taking place on routes I'm actually likely to climb...

Well some of those 7as you listed earlier may well need new bolts. The 7a+ route next to Armistice Day is a prime example of a good route in urgent need of new bolts.
 What got equiped would be dictated by who was motivated to do what. There'd be nothing to stop you re-equiping something you had particular interest in, assuming you can use a drill and follow simple instructions.


To justify my stance - some of those 7as I listed earlier I may well never climb, quite possibly all of them. I'm not going to be donating money in a situation where I will be getting no benefit whatsoever. On the other hand if there is any re-equipping of classic F6b-F6cs, or in the vaguely miraculous event of me getting up a re-equipped F7a, then I will donate money, yes. Someone should post on here if anything like that does get re-equipped.

jfw

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#19 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
August 08, 2006, 10:53:54 am


 I'm not going to be donating money in a situation where I will be getting no benefit whatsoever. On the other hand if there is any re-equipping of classic F6b-F6cs, or in the vaguely miraculous event of me getting up a re-equipped F7a, then I will donate money, yes. Someone should post on here if anything like that does get re-equipped.

Fiend - I don't think a bolt fund is a way for Bonjoy to get punters to pay him to re-equip his personal projects. Its a fund which anyone can draw on to re-equip any route.

Quote
What got equiped would be dictated by who was motivated to do what. There'd be nothing to stop you re-equiping something you had particular interest in, assuming you can use a drill and follow simple instructions.

so if you or like minded compadres got invovled - you could re-equip some of those classic 6b-6c's. i would think/hope that the fund organisers would give technical tips and support.

if resources are limited in would be good to have a suggestions system/reporting of particularly good routes with particularly poor bolts. it would be nice to think that resources wouldn't get instantly channelled to 7c's and above (which is what i think fiend is worried about)

question: what are peoples views on bad bolting?? i.e. moving a bolt or adding a bolt - and its affect on the character of a route. (i know on some crags - bolts are sometimes positioned to avoid impingement on existing trad routes - hmm- i also know some crags where this has been given no thought whatsoever). yes i am a big coward!

Fiend

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#20 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
August 08, 2006, 12:07:30 pm
Don't get me wrong, I think the bolt fund is a great idea and I'm not seeing anything sinister in it - quite the opposite. I'm just talking about it's relevance for me (and perhaps other low-mid-grade climbers) and explaining my original answer.

To be honest I can only remember seeing one instance of bad bolting near my grade-range, the first/second bolt combination on Martial Music. If someone would replace that, that would be cool, but even then I don't know if it will be of any use to me.

Other than that, the relevant routes I've seen, and climbed, have seemed fine to me.

Jerry Morefat

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#21 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
September 20, 2006, 01:14:09 pm
Surely one of the functions of the bolt fund Fiend is to re bolt routes which are within your grade range,  routes which currently are in a state of disrepair. Things such as Blessed are the Weak at  Willersley, the 7a s at bend tor for example. If these routes were re equiped and returned to a climable (in the sports climbing sense of the word) state then surely they would benefit people like you (and me) who climb at this grade? Anyway, I would be happy to donate 20 quid or so into a bolt fund.

Fiend

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#22 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
September 20, 2006, 01:20:30 pm
Sure. When I hear of stuff around F6c being rebolted then I will happily donate.

Bonjoy

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#23 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
September 20, 2006, 01:30:08 pm
We are setting account up at the mo and it should be ready for donations in a week or so.
Red Barron -  I agree regarding those routes you mentioned. Did most of them when they were first put up and they are well worth reviving. Have you checked out Long Tor since I re-bolted it? There is a gnarly 6c (furthest left), a good 6c+ (second line from left) and pumpy but steady 7a+ (big diagonal breakline)

Jerry Morefat

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#24 Re: Peak bolt fund, donation ideas
September 22, 2006, 11:58:00 am
not checked out long tor yet Bonjoy, although have been hearing good things since you rebolted it. Is a topo available?

 

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