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Intergrated Strength (Read 5081 times)

gme

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Intergrated Strength
March 23, 2018, 01:46:50 pm
Due to not having much time to climb over the next 4 weeks i have gone for this as an option.

https://www.climbstrong.com/integrated-strength/

Have done two sessions this week and really enjoying it. Was going to deadhang and do weights anyway but a proper session was still taking 1 1/2 hours plus warm up. I can now get it all done in under an hour inc warm up.
I also find sitting around for 3-4 minutes between hangs/reps really hard and often cant concentrate for the full session, usually as my brain is already fried from 10-12 hours work. This gets rid of that issue and also has the bonus of a stretching session thrown in.

Anyone else tried it? very efficient use of time for those with little.

I will report back on what returns i get over the 4 weeks. I got really good gains last year when i did 4 weeks of hangs and sacrificed climbing time.
 

nai

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#1 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 24, 2018, 09:07:41 am
Good find, I like the look of that, will also be giving it a go


teestub

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#2 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 24, 2018, 12:01:42 pm
Wasn't there some research that stretching in the same session as power training for muscles you were attempting to strengthen was Not A Good Thing? Wouldn't even know what phrases to use to find a paper!

I do fingerboard followed by weights, with stretching on the rest day following, or earlier the same day.I can't imagine that I'd save any time with this protocol, as the rest I'd need following deadlift or squat to do max hang would not be any different to doing them in series.

mrjonathanr

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#3 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 24, 2018, 02:48:42 pm
Small reduction in power (8% iirc?) if static stretching immediately prior to exercise. Can’t remember study/details, sorry. Don’t think afterwards is an issue, those Olympic gymnasts look pretty powerful to me..

abarro81

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#4 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 24, 2018, 07:38:09 pm
I do a similar thing to Bechtel's integrated strength idea with my Anderson hangs now - I modified the Anderson session a bit, so I now do one with 3 min rests and 5 min rests alternating.. in the 5 min rests I do a set of weights, and in the 3 min ones I do other little things I have to work on like glute bridges. Pretty hard to know whether it leads to supercharged strength gains, but it's a very efficient use of time

gme

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#5 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 24, 2018, 09:53:05 pm
I am not looking at it from a better “ suprcharged” way of training but more for itvefficency.
Did my 3rd session today and nailed my hangs. Best session to date despite the additional bench presses, squats and military presses plus stretching for three minutes 
Starting to be a bit of a convert.

DAVETHOMAS90

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#6 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 25, 2018, 02:02:30 am
Sounds good.

Of course, the simple fact that it's a session that you plan/schedule and look forward to, will probably mean that you rest and recover properly beforehand - meaning that you approach it with enough intensity to make the gains.

I bet that's a more significant pay-off than the timesaving. Sounds like it fits with your lifestyle. If you got paid enough to buy boots, maybe you could work less (sorry  ;D )

I always mix my hang sessions up with something else, typically stretching, or .. vacuuming. Saves time, but that's not the same as being as motivated as you sound by scheduling the session.

Muenchener

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#7 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 25, 2018, 09:42:28 am
I always mix my hang sessions up with something else, typically stretching, or .. vacuuming.

I find ironing is better for keeping the length of the rest intervals consistent.

But istr shark was also experimenting with the technique round about the time he set fire to his hand, so beware.

Oldmanmatt

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#8 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 25, 2018, 12:01:36 pm
Small reduction in power (8% iirc?) if static stretching immediately prior to exercise. Can’t remember study/details, sorry. Don’t think afterwards is an issue, those Olympic gymnasts look pretty powerful to me..

Well, there’s conflicting evidence out there.
From my recent discussion with certain in-laws engaged in rehab (wounded service personnel, so not athletes but injured “fit people”).
It’s bad juju for all but mobility and should be kept well separated by rest from other training aspects.

As per Lauersen (2013):

“The effectiveness of exercise interventions to prevent sports injuries: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials”
Jeppe Bo Lauersen,1 Ditte Marie Bertelsen,2 Lars Bo Andersen3,4

Which is the most up-to-date Meta (? Possibly. No link sorry).

But it contradicts Jamtvedt (2009):

“A pragmatic randomised trial of stretching before and after physical activity to prevent injury and soreness”
Gro Jamtvedt,1,2 Robert D Herbert,3,4 Signe Flottorp,1,5 Jan Odgaard-Jensen,1 Kari Håvelsrud,1 Alex Barratt,4 Erin Mathieu,4 Amanda Burls,6 Andrew D Oxman1

Warning: idle speculation past this point:

I think, as a concept, and as an Engineer, the stretching of muscle and connective tissue during or prior to exercise irks.
Stretching is essentially “damaging” those tissues, which means it should be rested/recovered/healed before being used at a maximal effort, no?
And I mean healed, so 24-48hrs rest.

N=1:

I stopped static stretching entirely, on a regular basis, switching to purely normal range of motion stuff to “limber up”, ie: getting the synovial fluid flowing.

But, I don’t seem to have lost any ROM.
Except in my right knee, where I tore my MCL last year (or, as per Toby D et al, more likely blew the Meniscus).

Edit:

I meant to i clude this, as an argument for a more measured approach to stretching:


“A review of the acute effects of static and dynamic stretching on performance” 2010
David G. Behm • Anis Chaouachi

Again, no links, all these things are PDF’s on my iPad, or I’d post the whole papers. (Of course I wouldn’t breach copyright like that, I’m a good boy).
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 12:34:34 pm by Oldmanmatt »

duncan

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#9 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 25, 2018, 12:29:40 pm
Stretching just before or just after high load efforts by the same muscles is probably not ideal, although how much difference this makes in the real world is conjecture.

The stretches advocated here are frog - hip adductors, tug-of-war squat - adductors, and cobra - hip flexors. Those muscles are not prime movers in the squat or hip-hinge exercises. The shoulder story is slightly more complex but there are no instances of prime movers being stretched that I can see.

I don't think combining strength work and stretching in this way should be a concern. Do be careful if you're calling the barbecue though. 

gme

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#10 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 25, 2018, 04:11:32 pm
Interesting points. I will have to look at what stretching I am doing as typically with me I am not following his routine to the letter more following it as a concept.

So are you saying that I should not stretch any joints or muscles that are the prime things being used in the exercise.
For the weights I am doing various combinations of squats, deadlift, shoulder press and bench. Maybe rows.
Stretches I am just focused on hip and hamstring stuff and just kind of make it up session by session. 3 stretches x three sets.

Nibile

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#11 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 25, 2018, 10:52:15 pm
I haven't read the linked article entirely, but I've been mixing deadhangs and weights for a long time now. For the weights part, I generally choose either explosive or strength excercises, the former usually being some kind of olympic lifting variation, and the latter being some kind of deadlift (usually from blocks). I prefer this to "normal" excercises because then I always go for submax (90%) one arm hangs, for which I have to be well recruited rather than a bit tired. Plus, the hangs benefit from the PAP effect.

duncan

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#12 Re: Intergrated Strength
March 27, 2018, 07:44:24 am
So are you saying that I should not stretch any joints or muscles that are the prime things being used in the exercise.

Avoid stretching muscle(s) that are prime movers in the same session. For example, don’t stretch the glutes or back muscles just before or after deadlifts. Avoid stretching your fingers or forearms just before or after deadhanging. Stretching a different muscle associated with the same joint is probably fine: it’s probably OK to do frog stretches in the same session as deadlifts or squats since, although all three are hip exercises, the muscles involved are different.

 

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