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"five minute fingers" (Read 7839 times)

yetix

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"five minute fingers"
November 13, 2017, 05:01:59 pm
http://eveningsends.com/five-minute-fingers/ - just seen this posted on climbharder on reddit. I'm curious as to what people think?

- probably just clickbait though really which I'm adding to thinking about it...

jwi

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#1 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 13, 2017, 05:34:52 pm
N=1, and anyone who can fool themselves into believing that a $100 chalk is better than a $3 chalk can fool themselves into believing anything.

(It's better than nothing and worse than a regular routine. Next.)

bigironhorse

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#2 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 13, 2017, 06:31:20 pm
Quote
I’m calling it “5 Minute Fingers” (hashtag #5MF).

 :please: :boohoo: :no:

measles23

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#3 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 13, 2017, 06:42:44 pm
Isn’t this the duscussion Shark started based on the Bulgarian Olympic lifting techniques from the 80s?
Multiple short sessions on multiple days.. only difference is the Bulgarians promoted maximal efforts, not taking it easy like this dude/Pavel

When I broke my leg last year I did the closest fingerboard interpretation I could for 2 months: averaged about 14 sessions per week, with the result I increased from my normal plateau of +40kg open crimp on BM2k small crimp up to +55 kg (+60kg for 3s)
N=1 but pretty happy to break plateau - it was quite a lot of work and was max efforts not casual passing-by goes.. only possible due to being on sick leave..

I don’t really believe easy sessions would achieve much unless you’re a beginner - for me training should be about trying hard

Dave Mayes

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#4 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 13, 2017, 09:42:21 pm
The idea of lots of easy hangs seems not a million miles away from the hangboard ladders routine, which Steve Bechtel promotes in his Logical Progression book. https://www.climbing.com/skills/training-hangboard-ladders-for-finger-strength/

Murph

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#5 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 14, 2017, 09:24:47 am
Ladders - you've always gotta love a training recommendation that quotes "studies" but doesn't give a hint of a reference.

5MF - warming up would take me longer than 5 minutes. Maybe that's the point I don't know. But improving pull ups, dodyweight squats or press ups - yeah that lends itself to Grease The Groove method. I'd be surprised if finger tendons are as obliging. Mind you, Pavel also advocates banging out a few reps of an "easy" Captains of Crush gripper which I suppose is similar.

For what it's worth, my favourite five minute training plan is by Stevie Haston: Do not ponder the complexities of this plan

sheavi

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#6 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 14, 2017, 12:57:36 pm
I can see how this would work through improving the nervous system to recruit motor units.  I'm a bit out of date with the research but I recall from the biomedical science syllabus during physio training that there are studies highlighting strength improvement by simply using visual imagery or physically strengthening the right bicep only and seeing strength gains in the left (not sure on the specifics but that's the jist). 

Some stuff here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4974856/

Lee M., Carroll T.J. (2007) Cross education: possible mechanisms for the contralateral effects of unilateral resistance training. Sports Medicine 37, 1-14. [PubMed]

tomtom

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#7 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 14, 2017, 01:04:22 pm
When I was a student (and started climbing) in our first year flat - the bog had a rail above the door - so every time I went to the loo I would do one or two pull ups (sometimes more). In effect the little quite often type thing referred to here.

I got quite good at pull ups fast - but I also got tendinitis in both elbows after a few months.

Sounds like a great way to fuck up your finger/wrist/forearm tendons to me...

Whilst this 5 min program might fit in well with this fellas NYC lifestyle - its worth remembering that there are no shortcuts to getting strong... Apart from drugs :D

SA Chris

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#8 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 14, 2017, 04:29:41 pm
Jeremy Beadle has 5 minute fingers. Donald Trump has 10.

danm

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#9 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 14, 2017, 05:39:49 pm
Jeremy Beadle has 5 minute fingers. Donald Trump has 10.

Have a wad point for having the balls to type that out.

Nibile

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#10 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 17, 2017, 08:42:50 am
That was a grim reading.
I will not take (and you shouldn't either) any training advice from (anyone else) someone who brags about form and then hangs from a fingerboard with locked out elbows and shoulders to the ears.
Not to mention the fact that you don't get strong by doing easy stuff: you'll only be able to hang the same big hold for longer.
Not to mention that it's a nonsense to try and put a fingerboarding routine on top of a Moonboard session or a weightlifting session, because you go from specific to general.
I'll stop here but could go on forever.
That said, it's clear that a bad training is better than no training at all and will gove some results...


cheque

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Nibile

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#12 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 17, 2017, 10:53:42 am
Egg. Fucking. Sactly.

Sasquatch

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#13 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 18, 2017, 01:29:24 am
My lord - it's sad that someone who is suposedly knowledgable in climing spouts this crap as training.  If you know jack sh&^ about training, then just say that.  when will the media dumbing shit down stop...

Murph

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#14 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 18, 2017, 08:11:24 am
That said, it's clear that a bad training is better than no training at all and will gove some results...

Agree with everything you wrote Nibs, except maybe this bit. A bad training plan can be worse than no training at all.

Something sub max better than nothing though, no doubt. Mark Rippertoe claims, hyperbolically, that an untrained novice would improve their bench press by going cycling. I quite like that even if I've not seen the study that proves it!

sheavi

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#15 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 18, 2017, 10:27:58 am
As a slight aside. It's interesting that properly trained gymnasts (elite) seem to hang from 'locked' elbows and shoulders without issue. Climbing will sometimes require having to lock both your shoulder and elbow.  Why not practice this with correct training?  Slowly strengthening tendons, ligaments and connective tissue.

My hunch is that gymnasts spend better quality of time implementing suitable mobility exercises into their workouts than climbers.

Interesting discussion here:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/6962-which-is-better-in-a-dead-hang/

Nibile

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#16 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 20, 2017, 11:33:35 am
It's interesting that properly trained gymnasts (elite) seem to hang from 'locked' elbows and shoulders without issue.
I wouldn't apply to myself anything of what elite or proper gymnasts (or climbers, for this matter) do. Quod licet Iovi, etc. Since when I bought a pair of rings, I deeply understood that what an average level gymnast can do, goes beyond what 99% of people, myself included, can only dream.
In the discussion you linked, the user Coach Sommer, who apparently is a national level coach and former gymnast, recommends retracting the scapulae.
I can't see what would be useful in hanging with fully locked out shoulders and elbows: it would benefit just the forearms, while stretching all the shoulder girdle ligaments and tendons and hyperextending the elbows. The first thing isn't good at all, because stretched out ligaments are less stable, and the second isn't good either because it can cause serious problems on so many aspects.
In any case I don't think that gymnasts use to hang fully locked out. If I read it correctly, the question was brought up by a swimmer and referred to dry-land swimming training. In swimming, probably, a very loose shoulder girdle isn't a bad thing, and most good swimmers have strongly hyperextendable elbows and knees. I don't know if it's a prerequisite or a consequence.


sheavi

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#17 Re: "five minute fingers"
November 20, 2017, 03:55:24 pm
My understanding of Chris Sommer's point (US National & Olympic gymnastic coach) is that you fully extend the elbow and let the shoulder girdle elevate fully whilst hanging and this can be done without just simply loosely hanging on the ligaments inactively.  He advises the same technique for shoulder stands btw.   
My point was that simply repeating the mantra 'don't deadhang while extending the elbows and elevating the shoulder' doesn't necessarily make it true.  Done correctly, through appropriate training and technique, it's a feasible and in some ways logical thing to do if whilst actually climbing you will end up in these positions, where you will need to actually move and pull up while fully extended.
Perhaps I'm just playing devils advocate ;).  He (Sommer) did good podcast with I think Tim Ferris awhile ago.

sheavi

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