[Luke Owens]

It's started to really annoy me this week that my bouldering grade hasn't increased from around 7A in 4 years. Pretty poor effort really, I have actually been trying to improve but my finger strength has always been incredibly low for the grades I tend to manage.

Back to the fingerboard again; I've never really managed a noticeable gain in finger strength in the past so hopefully if I stick at it for longer something might happen...

M: Lunch - Core and Antags

T: 1on 2off Aerocap for 10mins
Max Hangs (3 mins rest between reps)- 
4 x 10s on 30mm/20mm half crimp alternate arms
1 x 10s on 20mm open crimp

W: Lunch - Core and Antags

T: 1on 2off Aerocap for 10mins
Max Hangs (3 mins rest between reps)- 
2 x 10s on 30mm/20mm half crimp alternate arms
20mm edge, half crimp, R1: 9s, R2: 8s, R3: 8s

F: Boardroom - Various problems as a warm up then did some stuff around 6C/+ and some limit bouldering around 7A/7A+.

10 mins Aerocap warm-down

S: Rest

S: Fedw Fawr - Solo first visit, found the place OK but it was a bit of a mission from Wrexham. Most of the problems were damp/greasy and everything is pretty high. Threw a rope down Lobster Pop when I got there and dried and brushed the holds, went over to the freestanding boulders to warm up first. Flashed "The Big Tissue" (6A+) great problem at it's grade. Then completely failed on "Wall of Attrition" (6C+). Went back over to try Lobster Pop and was greeted by a massive run off wet streak down some of the crucial holds. Tried to stop the water from the top and dry the holds but had no chance, annoying...

Flashed "Pretencious Limestone" (6C) then scared myself a bit doing "The Mariner" (6C+) in a few goes, a direct line up the middle of one of the massive boulders. Finished off trying Ug's Arete (7A) but felt tired and struggled to figure it out. Walk out and drive home took ages.

[36chambers]

Was there an app mentioned where you could take a picture of a board and record problems/the holds used to keep a log of what you've done?

Does the wall have a facebook group for board problems? That's probably the easiest way to get people involved with suggesting problems and what not.

[nai]

Back to the fingerboard again; I've never really managed a noticeable gain in finger strength in the past so hopefully if I stick at it for longer something might happen...

I saw the results of a study recently where two groups of endurance athletes had trained for 3 months pre race season and had their gains measured.  One group then dropped the strength work during the season while the other performed a single session per week.  After 3 months (I think) the group that continued training had maintained pretty much all of their gains (and were recording better race times, most notably maintaining higher pace in the second half of their races) whilst the other group had lost all of their gains (took a lot of willpower not to capitalize ALL there). So it seems, on that evidence, we should just never stop hanging.

Edit:  And regarding not seeing gains previously, try a base phase of repeater style hangs for around six weeks then switch to a max hangs program.  If that doesn't work buy some hexes and grow a beard.

[Luke Owens]

Back to the fingerboard again; I've never really managed a noticeable gain in finger strength in the past so hopefully if I stick at it for longer something might happen...

I saw the results of a study recently where two groups of endurance athletes had trained for 3 months pre race season and had their gains measured.  One group then dropped the strength work during the season while the other performed a single session per week.  After 3 months (I think) the group that continued training had maintained pretty much all of their gains (and were recording better race times, most notably maintaining higher pace in the second half of their races) whilst the other group had lost all of their gains (took a lot of willpower not to capitalize ALL there). So it seems, on that evidence, we should just never stop hanging.

Edit:  And regarding not seeing gains previously, try a base phase of repeater style hangs for around six weeks then switch to a max hangs program.  If that doesn't work buy some hexes and grow a beard.

Cheers nai, staggering info there. What's the idea behind the period of repeaters first? (Is there a thread on here about it?) I've never really done repeaters, maybe did a bit years ago.

I haven't lost all of my gains but quite a lot. I did make some marginal gains in strength over last winter just not as much as I'd expected.

Regarding a beard; I'm 29 and still can't grow one so If the hangs don't work I'll just have to quit climbing...!

[Nibile]

If that doesn't work buy some hexes do more fingerboarding and grow a beard.

FTFY.

[nai]

What's the idea behind the period of repeaters first? (Is there a thread on here about it?) I've never really done repeaters, maybe did a bit years ago.

Basicaly what Sas says:

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,21419.msg390951.html#msg390951

[Luke Owens]

Quick question, I can't one arm anything, even a jug so I'm guessing I need to do shoulder girdle strength stuff if I want to be able to do this.

The most measurable way in the gym seems to be to put a handle on the lat pull down machine and pull with one arm.

As it's on a cable there can be twisting, when starting palms out it feels easier to twist the handle to face the palm inward to lock off the last bit of the motion but from a shoulder girdle strengthening point of view is it better to star palm facing out the whole time?

Also, should I aim to pull the maximum I can for 5reps? 3reps? 1rep?

Cheers

[erm, sam]

I have been trying to improve my shoulder strength by doing weighted wide pull ups, and weighted wide hand high lock offs, holding shoulders level with hands for 5s or so. THe width of my hands is such that if my chin is over one hand, the other arm is basically straight along the bar to the other hand. This combinded with Typewriters (in a different session) -chin over one hand transfering to chin above other, keepign shoulders high and back at all times is good. Don't know if it has worked yet, but feels like it is working..

[Nibile]

Quick question, I can't one arm anything, even a jug so I'm guessing I need to do shoulder girdle strength stuff if I want to be able to do this.

The most measurable way in the gym seems to be to put a handle on the lat pull down machine and pull with one arm.

As it's on a cable there can be twisting, when starting palms out it feels easier to twist the handle to face the palm inward to lock off the last bit of the motion but from a shoulder girdle strengthening point of view is it better to star palm facing out the whole time?

Also, should I aim to pull the maximum I can for 5reps? 3reps? 1rep?

Cheers

I've always found one armers on the lat machine way harder than on a bar. It's true that you can twist your wrist, but one armers - standard ones at least - are much more about twisting your body. Moreover, the neutral wrist position is the strongest but it's tricky to align body, arm and wrist at the lat machine. You can sit with both legs on the same side of the knee pads, opposite of the hand you're using, but it's still tricky and I don't think it will be of much help for real one armers.
I think that a good start could be at the bar, even with some added weight, first "learning" to retract and depress the shoulder blades with two arms, that's the first part of any pull up, or at least should be. Then, once you can do a few good pulls using just the shoulder depression, you can start practicing with one arm, same thing. Maybe taking some weight off, but going from a simple hang to a higher position with the shoulder blades retracted and depressed, and the lats that start being activated. Just this would give you a nice angle at the elbow.

[Murph]

I've never really managed a noticeable gain in finger strength in the past so hopefully if I stick at it for longer something might happen...

I *love* max hangs and have had great gains from them, so I'm always curious when I see someone say that they don't work for them.

T: 1on 2off Aerocap for 10mins
Max Hangs (3 mins rest between reps)- 
4 x 10s on 30mm/20mm half crimp alternate arms
1 x 10s on 20mm open crimp

So you are hanging 4 times for 10s on a mix of holds, and then once for 10s - 5 hangs total?

T: 1on 2off Aerocap for 10mins
Max Hangs (3 mins rest between reps)- 
2 x 10s on 30mm/20mm half crimp alternate arms
20mm edge, half crimp, R1: 9s, R2: 8s, R3: 8s

And then two days later you did another 5 hangs but this time 3 were exclusively on the 20mm edge. Looks like you are doing something similar to what I've done - aim for 10s and when you can do that move on to something more challenging? That sounds like a pretty solid routine to me. If you can keep it up and be systematic then surely those 9s and 8s will turn to 10s and before long you'll be doing all 5 hangs on 20mm. Then can move onto smaller holds and/or add weight.

FWIW I've found it helpful to be brutal about the lengths of rests for benchmarking / tracking - so I do my hangs on the minute marks of 1,4,7...25

Quick question, I can't one arm anything, even a jug so I'm guessing I need to do shoulder girdle strength stuff if I want to be able to do this.

When you do your hangs are you hanging like a bag of rocks shoulders touching ears etc. or are your shoulders fully engaged, scapular retracted & neck tall? I struggled in the past with going from (poor form) max hangs with lots of added weight to any one arm work, and the main reason was poor shoulder stability. It's a weakness I am only now taking seriously by doing things like scapular retractions on a bar - which is what everyone should be doing anyway. And for what it's worth, when I fail a hang these days it's usually because the shoulders have dropped - I used to just hang with shoulders dropped throughout! Anyway, that 's my n=1 good luck with making progress.

[Luke Owens]

So you are hanging 4 times for 10s on a mix of holds, and then once for 10s - 5 hangs total?

Basically I was putting one hand on the 30mm and the other on the 20mm and hanging half crimped, then switching to the other hand on the 30mm and the other on the 20mm. So 4 of these then one hang open crimp (I'm stronger open crimped) with both hands on the 20mm.

And then two days later you did another 5 hangs but this time 3 were exclusively on the 20mm edge.

Yeah, 3 hangs half crimped on the 20mm.

When you do your hangs are you hanging like a bag of rocks shoulders touching ears etc. or are your shoulders fully engaged, scapular retracted & neck tall? I struggled in the past with going from (poor form) max hangs with lots of added weight to any one arm work, and the main reason was poor shoulder stability. It's a weakness I am only now taking seriously by doing things like scapular retractions on a bar - which is what everyone should be doing anyway. And for what it's worth, when I fail a hang these days it's usually because the shoulders have dropped - I used to just hang with shoulders dropped throughout! Anyway, that 's my n=1 good luck with making progress.

I find it much easier to hang anything when my shoulders fully engaged. If I'm sagged I find it a lot harder so no problems there really.

Are the scapular retractions just hanging from a bar and sort of just engaging the first part of a pull up?

Cheers

[Murph]

Are the scapular retractions just hanging from a bar and sort of just engaging the first part of a pull up?

Yeah that's it. If you're hanging engaged anyway then you probably don't have the same issues I had/have so that might not be your weakness.