[TobyD]

It really hurts, getting whipped into the wall. Enough to put you off.

Find a waif to belay you and if the catch still isn't soft enough then introduce a roller. They won't know what hit them (apart from perhaps the rock near the 1st bolt).

TobyD (<60kg) did this for me (currently 83kg) on Empire a couple of weeks ago, when I lobbed off at the second clip.

Was a really soft catch until his head hit my arse at something approximating the speed of sound...

Yesterday at Torbryan, he was clipping into the ground to avoid further intimate encounters.

Currently doing my best to get fatter, just so I can belay you safely Matt. 

But I think you have to fall off trying properly and preferably unexpectedly as well. (In a safe situation!) Jumping off isn't the same. Nothing like an unexpected 40ft lob to calm the nerves.

[Oldmanmatt]

I fall a lot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fultonius]

I think, but I'm not sure, that it is probably necessary to go beyond the practice drills in a staged progression, as I do think there is  a risk that doing drills will mainly improve your ability to... do drills.

One way of stepping it up to the "red point" level, that could still be done indoors, or at a crag, is find a hard route (between onsight and red point level) and just climb it until you fall, the important bit being that the fall is  much less controlled. I also like meunchener's idea of jumping of the crux (if safe).

I do worry about what happens if my girlfriend falls off unexpectedly, because she's not "practiced" in falling. She's not gripped by fear of falling and is progressing, so I've got no inclination to push her, just this nagging unease at the back if my mind.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

[Nutty]

The progression of practiced falls described in Espresso Lessons goes further than jumping off in to practicing falls where you're out-of-balance and not preparing to jump off. From memory, once you've progressed through slumping on a rope, falling level with a bolt and then jumping off progressively higher above a bolt, you start dropping off from different positions and then progress to dropping off as soon as the belayer/partner calls out 'drop' or similar so that you practice falling without preparing for it.

[Fiend]

It's be interesting to see some non anecdotal evidence of falling drills working. Falling drills are undertaken in a controlled way where the climber is most likely sure they're not going to hurt themselves, as oposssc to being at the crag etc where the climber is going to be fearful of injury. If the you had the thought going above your kit 'I've nothing to be worried about here even if I fall' then there'd be no need for falling practice. It's a perceptual control thing

And that is exactly why you don't understand how falling drills can work so well, because you don't understand that fear of falling is NOT always about conscious fear of injury, and you don't understand that a climber can rationally think 'I've nothing to be worried about here even if I fall' AND still be emotionally bloody terrified of falling. It's been usefully termed phantom fear, it has very little to do with actual danger, it is irrespective of logically understanding the lack of danger in a situation, it can be utterly debilitating to progressing with climbing (and committing to situations where you might risk a safe fall), and it can be tackled directly and very effectively by falling drills.

[Rocksteady]

The progression of practiced falls described in Espresso Lessons goes further than jumping off in to practicing falls where you're out-of-balance and not preparing to jump off. From memory, once you've progressed through slumping on a rope, falling level with a bolt and then jumping off progressively higher above a bolt, you start dropping off from different positions and then progress to dropping off as soon as the belayer/partner calls out 'drop' or similar so that you practice falling without preparing for it.

I have had real issues with falling, I think because I spent about two years when I started climbing only climbing on toprope. I am still not great - I find unless I practice regularly and in different environments, different crags, I get freaked out again.
I had a mate who really helped me with getting over fear of falling indoors at least who just made me practice loads of falls. Started little, then bigger, then skipping a clip at the top of the wall. Then progressed to him just shouting fall and me having to let go. He would usually do this whenever he sensed I was getting nervous, like on a difficult clip. This really helped.
Outdoors I find I am comfortable in some situations and not others. I had a complete 'mare on my trip to Gorges du Tarn this year where I was on climbs right at my limit with longish runouts. I've noticed in particular I freak out where the line goes in a diagonal and has insecure feet - I feel very conscious of ensuring the rope is in front of my feet having seen videos of inverted falls. Redpointing definitely helps as you end up falling off a lot - it works to deliberately fall at the point where you're worried (as long as you've sussed it's safe).

In terms of 'motivation' for fall practice - it has to come from within, from the desire to improve. And also enjoy climbing more. I've had days where I'm a bit paralysed on routes within my limit due to lack of commitment because of fear of falling. That's not fun. I'd love to get to the stage where I don't worry about it at all and can just focus on enjoying climbing. Sometimes that feels close, sometimes far away.

[Muenchener]

One way of stepping it up to the "red point" level, that could still be done indoors, or at a crag, is find a hard route (between onsight and red point level) and just climb it until you fall, the important bit being that the fall is  much less controlled.

Mr Kettle recommended precisely this to me - round off a wall session with a no-takes go on something just above onsight level. Then you either do it - hurrah! - or get used to falling whilst trying hard. I've been doing it for a couple of weeks now, seems ike a good idea.

[user deactivated]

It's be interesting to see some non anecdotal evidence of falling drills working. Falling drills are undertaken in a controlled way where the climber is most likely sure they're not going to hurt themselves, as oposssc to being at the crag etc where the climber is going to be fearful of injury. If the you had the thought going above your kit 'I've nothing to be worried about here even if I fall' then there'd be no need for falling practice. It's a perceptual control thing

And that is exactly why you don't understand how falling drills can work so well, because you don't understand that fear of falling is NOT always about conscious fear of injury, and you don't understand that a climber can rationally think 'I've nothing to be worried about here even if I fall' AND still be emotionally bloody terrified of falling. It's been usefully termed phantom fear, it has very little to do with actual danger, it is irrespective of logically understanding the lack of danger in a situation, it can be utterly debilitating to progressing with climbing (and committing to situations where you might risk a safe fall), and it can be tackled directly and very effectively by falling drills.

Hey Fiend  I did think about that after my post and wondered if it was right. Still I think there's some level of 'cognition' propelling the problem even in the situation you described above. Emotional reasoning for example - being scared is unacceptable or means I may fail or indicates danger. That could be improved just by falling drills but adjustment of perception is important here even if it's not immediately consciously apparent. Some people think anxiety / fear / excitement etc only become this based on interpretation (cognition / perception)  without this it is just a state of arousal.

[ghisino]

It's be interesting to see some non anecdotal evidence of falling drills working.

unless some sport science/ sports psychology student wants to have a go at this, lots of anecdoctal evidence is the best you can hope for.

personally speaking:

-i was very reluctant for a long time
-when i finally gave them a chance, i did it systematically and the difference was simply too obvious to ignore. it really does work, especially if you approach it as you would approach any "progression" : constant work with steady little increments. My own target was being able to dyno at a blank spot on the wall, with the last bolt at my feet. When i got to the point where i was "enjoying" the exercise, i was also ok with 95% of outdoors sport climbing situations.

-the results do not last forever. If i go a long time without "spontaneous" falls, i need a little falling drills session to get back to my usual level of fear/bravery.

an interesting and more controversial question (maybe that's what you are really asking?) is : does it help for those sketchy situations, where you can objectively and rationally state that falling is a very bad idea?

My feeling is that it helps marginally by removing the some of the "irrational" part of the fear, and also indirectly, as my "usual" climbing style is a bit less tense. Overall i'm more relaxed, less irrational, and enjoy the experience more.
However for me it is not a substitute for actual practice of any kind of sketchy climbing, rather a useful complement

[petejh]

Most people have this fear to some extent - it's natural to not feel relaxed about falling from height, despite the safeguards in place!

Fear of falling, if all the safeguards are working properly, is an irrational fear. You won't come to harm other than perhaps a few bruises and perhaps a hurt ego.
Irrational fear is still fear, it makes no difference to the subjective experience of fear whether the danger is real or perceived danger - anxiety attacks are an extreme fear response and are normally triggered by non-threatening scenarios being perceived by the person as life-threatening.

Spiders is a classic. I'm fearful of spiders - do I think they're life-threatening or injurious (in the UK, outlier black widows in bananas aside), no! I know they pose no 'real' danger.

I think I'm correct in saying the only way to overcome an irrational fear is exposure therapy. Maybe hypnosis can also do it?  But the motivation to expose yourself to the fear has to be there - I'm content to live my life being irrationally fearful of small non-poisonous spiders because it doesn't really impact enough on my day-today living.

I'm not content to be fearful of falling on lead because it would hold me back from doing something I love. I'll probably always be a little fearful, and so will probably always need to expose myself to lead falling in a controlled way - 'controlled' can mean different things at different times, or for different people, depending on where they are on the scale of fearfulness. From a bit of slack on a top-rope, to big whippers onto trad gear (with nothing to hit!).