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Project 8a (Read 47126 times)

webbo

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#50 Re: Project 8a
September 07, 2017, 04:34:52 pm
Then you might end up an arse the size of a small planet.
A professional cyclist will have highly defined thighs but there not always big in size. The ones with huge thighs are often track sprinters who spend hours squatting heavy weights.

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#51 Re: Project 8a
September 07, 2017, 04:38:25 pm
Then you might end up an arse the size of a small planet.
A professional cyclist will have highly defined thighs but there not always big in size. The ones with huge thighs are often track sprinters who spend hours squatting heavy weights.

Nah, get the scooter and push it to work...


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#52 Re: Project 8a
September 07, 2017, 08:19:39 pm
stay in first gear

webbo

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#53 Re: Project 8a
September 07, 2017, 09:51:33 pm
stay in first gear
I presume you mean like as in the car as no one on the bike refers to first gear.
You would say I was in 34 x 28 or 53 x 11
Call yourself a climber pah

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#54 Re: Project 8a
September 07, 2017, 11:34:34 pm
stay in first gear
I presume you mean like as in the car as no one on the bike refers to first gear.
You would say I was in 34 x 28 or 53 x 11
Call yourself a climber pah

what's a "bike"?

sounds kind of camp

jwi

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#55 Re: Project 8a
September 08, 2017, 10:08:21 am
I have nothing useful to add except that focusing on big goals can backfire. As others have already said, figure out the steps that you need to achieve in order to be able to climb a (selected) 8a. Make sure that each step can be achieved by doing things within your control. Then “forget” about the big goal and focus on each step. (Science)

In my opinion (backed up by a reasonable data-set). Physically you need this to do 7c in a day (<5 goes):

Strength:
1. You should be able to do all the moves on a sustained six move boulder @ 7a-7b within two sessions
2. You should be able to boulder 6c-7a regardless of length (3 to 8 moves)

Strength endurance:
3. Climb three consecutive boulder problems ~6b with ≤10 s rest between them. Repeat 6 times with 6 min rest.

Threshold:
4. Climb a 30 move 7a-7b 8 times in a row with 6 min rest between them.

Endurance:
5. You should be able to do a 30 move sustained route of grade 6c-7a ten times with one minute rest between the goes. (A single fall on each of the two last laps is OK)

If your are on the strong side (can do 7a boulder of all lengths) it's ok to have less good endurance (ten laps on 6c), and vice versa. Select route accordingly.

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#56 Re: Project 8a
September 08, 2017, 11:15:55 am
I have nothing useful to add except that focusing on big goals can backfire. As others have already said, figure out the steps that you need to achieve in order to be able to climb a (selected) 8a. Make sure that each step can be achieved by doing things within your control. Then “forget” about the big goal and focus on each step. (Science)

In my opinion (backed up by a reasonable data-set). Physically you need this to do 7c in a day (<5 goes):

Strength:
1. You should be able to do all the moves on a sustained six move boulder @ 7a-7b within two sessions
2. You should be able to boulder 6c-7a regardless of length (3 to 8 moves)

Strength endurance:
3. Climb three consecutive boulder problems ~6b with ≤10 s rest between them. Repeat 6 times with 6 min rest.

Threshold:
4. Climb a 30 move 7a-7b 8 times in a row with 6 min rest between them.

Endurance:
5. You should be able to do a 30 move sustained route of grade 6c-7a ten times with one minute rest between the goes. (A single fall on each of the two last laps is OK)

If your are on the strong side (can do 7a boulder of all lengths) it's ok to have less good endurance (ten laps on 6c), and vice versa. Select route accordingly.

Thanks for this. This is actually the sort of stuff I’ve been trying to figure out, and I’ve been struggling to find anything as clearly laid out as what you’ve done here.

Going back to my original post, my thinking is to concentrate on bouldering / finger strength initially, as that’s the thing that’s going to take longest to (safely) improve to a sufficient level.

I’ll keep an element of threshold / aero in the mix, but fitted in around the strength stuff.

I’m already being more strategic at the wall in terms of spending more time on problems that clearly have similarities with the sort of routes I’m aiming for, and then worrying about the more random stuff afterwards.

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#57 Re: Project 8a
September 08, 2017, 07:55:50 pm
Personally, I prefer the idea of quick ascents on holiday. Depending on who I'd be with, I think 5 redpoints would probably be my max. I think, with limited opportunities for this sort of thing, aiming for a variety of easier ticks is going to do me more good in the long term than hammering one thing.

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#58 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 01:52:58 pm
My dad projected an 8a aged 63. His approach was to choose a project local to where he lived (Dorset) and try it often over a number of months (probably approaching a year). To be fair, he actually probably did it in about 5 sessions once he worked out the right beta.

After each session he'd go away and work mainly on strength on his board. He made quite good progress just locking static holds with one hand and feet on, in positions similar to those he encountered on the route. He'd do 3 sets of 3 holding as long as he could. Seem to remember it was a fierce crimp, a weird sidepull and an undercut he worked.

He tried a few holiday 8as but went away empty handed as just never quite had the fitness. He figured it was easier to get strong and go bouldery as at his age it was hard for him to tolerate the volume required to get 8a endurance.


I am slightly dismayed by jwi's stats for climbing 7c in <5 goes. I was hoping to build up my volume of 7cs over next year or so but don't think I can do any of those feats. Maybe 3 if I had the boulder dialled. Must train harder!

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#59 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 02:53:15 pm



I am slightly dismayed by jwi's stats for climbing 7c in <5 goes. I was hoping to build up my volume of 7cs over next year or so but don't think I can do any of those feats. Maybe 3 if I had the boulder dialled. Must train harder!

I was a bit puzzled by jwi's comments too - my mate Max had onsighted 4 x 8a and climbed 8b but was utterly lost on 7A when he came to Albarracin with myself and AJM. He was onsighting 7c for his warmups.

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#60 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 04:22:02 pm
I think there are so many variables, attempts at 'science' are problematic.

My advice would be choose a project that suits your strength and is local. I made a similar target for 8a before I was 50. I lived in Cornwall, deepest Penwith so I was a bit up against it on the local front. I chose Cider Soak because its good, but after a session on that realised seeping was an issue, so on a wet day wandered up to the wave at Cheddar and was shown a short and shit route, 'Crystal something or other', so switched my attention. It took me four sessions. I was bouldering up to high 7's and lacked endurance. History of sport climbing in the preceding ten years was a 7a and easy bolted multi pitch holiday.

So strengths in bouldering suited bouldery sport, the route was accessible and didn't seep. I think another factor was motivation, the target really helped, the approaching birthday made the pressure real. I also trained specifically, did 4x4's and had a similar length power endurance circuit that I projected on my board.

Good luck!!!

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#61 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 05:27:14 pm

I was a bit puzzled by jwi's comments too - my mate Max had onsighted 4 x 8a and climbed 8b but was utterly lost on 7A when he came to Albarracin with myself and AJM. He was onsighting 7c for his warmups.

I take it he didn't onsight many of the 7c-routes that start with a 7a boulder, then an easy romp to the top then?

(But of course you have not to be able to do it all at the same time. Two weeks ago I could do all three 8as I tried within five goes, last week I couldn't do 6b in the gym... the style is too different, it takes two weeks for my bouldering level is starting to approach normal again. That has almost nothing to do with strength.)

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#62 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 09:58:04 pm
Some great tales of quests for the eighth grade - really interesting reading them.

Obviously there’s loads of variability in terms of what’s required for different routes, but I rather like jwi’s approach - especially in terms of having some additional intermediate goals.

Inspired by Dan’s film, I got the Dorset Bouldering guide today, and am going to try to make time for some days away. I figured that, if I can start to crack limestone bouldering 7s before too long, I’ll be moving in the right direction. I’ve never bouldered on Portland before, but it does look pretty good, and sounds like there’s lots of stuff that will work throughout the winter.

Also managed to get a bit nearer to the first weight goal (i.e. under 90kg) without any cardio. When / if the weather improves down here I’ll add some running and cycling in and should be back to 80something for the first time in 5 years...


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#63 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 10:28:47 pm
Also, if the bouldering goes ok then Breathing Method on Portland might be another option, although I doubt I’d be quite as satisfied with a mid-route boulder problem as something more sustained. But it does look like quite a cool bit of climbing nonetheless...

If the harder Portland routes favour the tall then perhaps I should consider some others also.

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#64 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 10:42:16 pm
I chose Cider Soak because its good, but after a session on that realised seeping was an issue, so on a wet day wandered up to the wave at Cheddar and was shown a short and shit route, 'Crystal something or other', so switched my attention.

I'm pretty keen to climb my first 8a before too long, but did you really get that sense of satisfaction from climbing something so bad you don't even remember the name? (Liquid Crystal I think). I'd love to climb Cider Soak because it's awesome, not just because it's 8a. One move currently shutting me down though.

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#65 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 10:46:28 pm
Also, if the bouldering goes ok then Breathing Method on Portland might be another option, although I doubt I’d be quite as satisfied with a mid-route boulder problem as something more sustained. But it does look like quite a cool bit of climbing nonetheless...

If the harder Portland routes favour the tall then perhaps I should consider some others also.

From what I understand Breathing Method is really hard for 8a, might be your first soft 8a+ even! I'm exclusively bouldering until a font trip in October and then I'm going to be projecting the hell out of Fighting Torque. I've been on it once and it's awesome. Good enough to do even if it turns out to be 7c+. Consensus is good enough for me though!

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#66 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 10:50:19 pm
Interesting - I will investigate FT!

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#67 Re: Project 8a
September 11, 2017, 11:19:03 pm
It's certainly worth a look!

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#68 Re: Project 8a
September 12, 2017, 06:51:08 am
It's certainly worth a look!

If I can get the time away from the little one, I may see you there...

It definitely seems a different kettle of fish from Breathing Method, whose bouldering grade seems to go up the more people I talk to!

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#69 Re: Project 8a
September 12, 2017, 08:27:13 am
I chose Cider Soak because its good, but after a session on that realised seeping was an issue, so on a wet day wandered up to the wave at Cheddar and was shown a short and shit route, 'Crystal something or other', so switched my attention.

I'm pretty keen to climb my first 8a before too long, but did you really get that sense of satisfaction from climbing something so bad you don't even remember the name? (Liquid Crystal I think). I'd love to climb Cider Soak because it's awesome, not just because it's 8a. One move currently shutting me down though.



I got satisfaction from hitting my goal, but yes it would have been much sweeter with Cider Soak, but it seeped, I only had five weeks window of opportunity and I wanted the tick!  ;)

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#70 Re: Project 8a
September 12, 2017, 08:39:25 am
The boulder problem on BM is nails. If you're at the cuttings Fighting Torque would probably be a better bet (was my first 8a).

At Cheddar something like Lion Sleeps Tonight would be a lot better and more memorable than anything on the wave.

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#71 Re: Project 8a
September 12, 2017, 10:13:50 am
My dad projected an 8a aged 63. His approach was to choose a project local to where he lived (Dorset) and try it often over a number of months (probably approaching a year). To be fair, he actually probably did it in about 5 sessions once he worked out the right beta.

After each session he'd go away and work mainly on strength on his board. He made quite good progress just locking static holds with one hand and feet on, in positions similar to those he encountered on the route. He'd do 3 sets of 3 holding as long as he could. Seem to remember it was a fierce crimp, a weird sidepull and an undercut he worked.

He tried a few holiday 8as but went away empty handed as just never quite had the fitness. He figured it was easier to get strong and go bouldery as at his age it was hard for him to tolerate the volume required to get 8a endurance.


I am slightly dismayed by jwi's stats for climbing 7c in <5 goes. I was hoping to build up my volume of 7cs over next year or so but don't think I can do any of those feats. Maybe 3 if I had the boulder dialled. Must train harder!

I wish I could give your dad a wad point!!

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#72 Re: Project 8a
September 12, 2017, 03:59:49 pm
That is well inspiring. In fact this whole thread is very inspiring, and extremely well timed for me..

Today I need to decide whether to renew my ffme licence or kick it in and go ride bikes this year. It's been a pretty poor climbing year - I think I fell off the Power Club wagon pretty quickly. But lots of the stuff above really resonates with me.

So here we go again... overall year plan:

Short Term : Sept to Jan - get strong, get bendy, maintain weight
Lots of bouldering, mixed limit sessions and more endurance based sessions at local walls. Fingerboard at least once a week.
Any rare outdoor climbing will be dependant on conditions - doing a few routes to stay used to outdoor footwork, checking out potential projects for later.
Stretching - I feel really stiff all over at the moment, still don't have full knee movement after operation last Feb (but no pain)
Weight - keep cycling to work, run once a week, but try not to get distracted by biking.. if I eat sensibly this should keep me around 72kg
Potential showstopper - possible arthritic fingers.. need to seriously evaluate performace on small holds. If I can't get back some crimp strength then it's game over for hard outdoor climbing and I'll just go biking (and buy a new bike, obviously).

Short Term Goal - regional Bouldering champs around Feb. Not be last, feel strong.

Medium Term : Feb to April - get fit
More route climbing, more endurance/stamina sessions. Keep up fingerboarding
Outdoor climbing as above, with more time on potential 7c/8a projects. Can't see myseklf being motivated for 7c+ for simple grade snobbery and limited outdoor time!
Be more careful with diet and maintain cycling to drop a couple of kgs.

Medium Term Goals - feel fit AND strong

April/May/June - projects. Should have found a route to do. Get it done.




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#73 Re: Project 8a
September 12, 2017, 05:47:33 pm
I wholeheartedly support the specific local project approach.

I've done a similar thing a couple of times, setting myself the goal of my first 7b+ before my wedding and then 7c before our baby is due.  I found local routes that I could try often and chip away at and train specifically for on my board, and both got done much quicker than expected.


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#74 Re: Project 8a
September 28, 2017, 02:06:28 pm
interesting topic.

one approach would be to build a ticklist of intermediate projects in the same style as the 8a's you dream of.

it seems that short routes are your thing (you were mentioning l'olla) so i can mention a few destinations/sub sectors in France.
north to south:

Les Andelys (near Rouen). a few worthwhile routes in the 7's and 8's. the good crags are named bisexto and thuit. not a killer venue in itself but possibly a good intermediate stop.

La guignoterie (poitiers). pocketed 20m heaven, loads of fine 7's, good for a day heading to Tarn.

Tarn: focus on gullich and oasif sectors. barbitturique is a pupular burly 10 move 8a on 2 finger pockets, 45deg.

saussois: good intermediate stop heading south east. do not consider routes below 6b, too polished. brilliant 7s, especially chimpanzodrome (15 move 7c+)

st léger: a few good short and pinchy 8as in the begginning of face sud.

buoux: reve de papillon is an obvious short 8a, not that bouldery or fingery, possibly easier for the tall, not sandbagged. expect to get spanked on many easier routes though.


in spain, i would highly consider margalef for a grade quest. apart from grade softness consideration, the routes are really straightforward and do not require loads of experience at the grade in order to redpoint them quickly... siurana is quite the opposite, quick redpoint nightmare imho.



 

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