Author Topic: Project 8a  (Read 3817 times)

Offline Oldmanmatt

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2017, 01:22:18 pm »
Good thread this, I will be following closely.
I am of course in the same boat. 5kgs too heavy, in the grip of cycling, soon to be 45 and still aiming for 8a. Got back into training last winter and went straight to golfers elbow - that is cleared up now - so how to get training again slowly without injuries is an issue.
My route is only 15 mins from home, I should have done it in 2010, but never got me arse in gear. I was redpointing and expected success but it never happened - so all the 7c+'s are still the highpoint gradewise.

Aiming to tick it in April, but whether that is 2018 or '19 remains to be seen!

Look, I'm seriously selling this here, as a viable alternative to cycling in the weight loss and Cardio improvement.
Due to family commitments (No1 daughter decided to vomit in year 8 maths and is barred from school for 48hrs), I only got in a 2hr march.
Walking/running does not build large heavy thighs like cycling does. I scrambled the VDiff up to Haytor summit to finnish and climbed 384mtrs on the run.
Even Strava has me down as burning 1063kcal and it's not taking into account the 15kg pack I was carrying. I didn't need a helmet and my mode of transport cost somewhat less than a crap road bike, AND NO ONE TRIED TO CRUSH ME INTO THE TARMAC!
Plus the dog loved it.
And, I'm fit enough to turn to at work and teach GCSE PE to twenty 15 year olds all afternoon. My core is not fucked and my upper body will be fine, having done sod all, for a good strength session tomorrow AM. My legs aren't even stiff.



And all before 09:30.

Did get punched quite hard by Mrs OMM when the alarm went off at five.

I didn't know she knew those words.
All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2017, 03:33:20 pm »
I do quite like that sort of thing, but my wife commutes so anything like this always starts at 9am post school run and so ends up swallowing most of the day.

Last time I dropped down to low 80s kg was when we had a treadmill, but the last one got destroyed when the fan fell on it. It might be the time to replace it...


Offline yetix

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2017, 03:55:34 pm »
Good thread this, I will be following closely.
I am of course in the same boat. 5kgs too heavy, in the grip of cycling, soon to be 45 and still aiming for 8a. Got back into training last winter and went straight to golfers elbow - that is cleared up now - so how to get training again slowly without injuries is an issue.
My route is only 15 mins from home, I should have done it in 2010, but never got me arse in gear. I was redpointing and expected success but it never happened - so all the 7c+'s are still the highpoint gradewise.

Aiming to tick it in April, but whether that is 2018 or '19 remains to be seen!

Look, I'm seriously selling this here, as a viable alternative to cycling in the weight loss and Cardio improvement.
Due to family commitments (No1 daughter decided to vomit in year 8 maths and is barred from school for 48hrs), I only got in a 2hr march.
Walking/running does not build large heavy thighs like cycling does. I scrambled the VDiff up to Haytor summit to finnish and climbed 384mtrs on the run.
Even Strava has me down as burning 1063kcal and it's not taking into account the 15kg pack I was carrying. I didn't need a helmet and my mode of transport cost somewhat less than a crap road bike, AND NO ONE TRIED TO CRUSH ME INTO THE TARMAC!
Plus the dog loved it.
And, I'm fit enough to turn to at work and teach GCSE PE to twenty 15 year olds all afternoon. My core is not fucked and my upper body will be fine, having done sod all, for a good strength session tomorrow AM. My legs aren't even stiff.



And all before 09:30.

Did get punched quite hard by Mrs OMM when the alarm went off at five.

I didn't know she knew those words.

slightly off topic but I'm to start cycling to work (3.5m each way on flat terrain) twice a day soon. Is this likely to cause significant leg muscle increases (as I rely on being light massively!) if I keep the intensity down to a low pace?

Online webbo

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2017, 04:01:26 pm »
You will end up with thighs like Sir Chris Hoy on that mileage.

Offline yetix

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2017, 04:26:34 pm »
thought so, better get a mobility scooter instead.

Online webbo

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2017, 04:34:52 pm »
Then you might end up an arse the size of a small planet.
A professional cyclist will have highly defined thighs but there not always big in size. The ones with huge thighs are often track sprinters who spend hours squatting heavy weights.

Offline Oldmanmatt

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2017, 04:38:25 pm »
Then you might end up an arse the size of a small planet.
A professional cyclist will have highly defined thighs but there not always big in size. The ones with huge thighs are often track sprinters who spend hours squatting heavy weights.

Nah, get the scooter and push it to work...


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Offline lagerstarfish

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2017, 08:19:39 pm »
stay in first gear
Should you meet me at the crag - I'm pretty crap at face to face social interaction - what might seem like me being aloof is actually me trying to control moderate social anxiety - alcohol helps, but I don't take it to the crag

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2017, 09:51:33 pm »
stay in first gear
I presume you mean like as in the car as no one on the bike refers to first gear.
You would say I was in 34 x 28 or 53 x 11
Call yourself a climber pah

Offline lagerstarfish

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2017, 11:34:34 pm »
stay in first gear
I presume you mean like as in the car as no one on the bike refers to first gear.
You would say I was in 34 x 28 or 53 x 11
Call yourself a climber pah

what's a "bike"?

sounds kind of camp
Should you meet me at the crag - I'm pretty crap at face to face social interaction - what might seem like me being aloof is actually me trying to control moderate social anxiety - alcohol helps, but I don't take it to the crag

Offline jwi

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2017, 10:08:21 am »
I have nothing useful to add except that focusing on big goals can backfire. As others have already said, figure out the steps that you need to achieve in order to be able to climb a (selected) 8a. Make sure that each step can be achieved by doing things within your control. Then ďforgetĒ about the big goal and focus on each step. (Science)

In my opinion (backed up by a reasonable data-set). Physically you need this to do 7c in a day (<5 goes):

Strength:
1. You should be able to do all the moves on a sustained six move boulder @ 7a-7b within two sessions
2. You should be able to boulder 6c-7a regardless of length (3 to 8 moves)

Strength endurance:
3. Climb three consecutive boulder problems ~6b with ≤10 s rest between them. Repeat 6 times with 6 min rest.

Threshold:
4. Climb a 30 move 7a-7b 8 times in a row with 6 min rest between them.

Endurance:
5. You should be able to do a 30 move sustained route of grade 6c-7a ten times with one minute rest between the goes. (A single fall on each of the two last laps is OK)

If your are on the strong side (can do 7a boulder of all lengths) it's ok to have less good endurance (ten laps on 6c), and vice versa. Select route accordingly.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2017, 11:15:55 am »
I have nothing useful to add except that focusing on big goals can backfire. As others have already said, figure out the steps that you need to achieve in order to be able to climb a (selected) 8a. Make sure that each step can be achieved by doing things within your control. Then ďforgetĒ about the big goal and focus on each step. (Science)

In my opinion (backed up by a reasonable data-set). Physically you need this to do 7c in a day (<5 goes):

Strength:
1. You should be able to do all the moves on a sustained six move boulder @ 7a-7b within two sessions
2. You should be able to boulder 6c-7a regardless of length (3 to 8 moves)

Strength endurance:
3. Climb three consecutive boulder problems ~6b with ≤10 s rest between them. Repeat 6 times with 6 min rest.

Threshold:
4. Climb a 30 move 7a-7b 8 times in a row with 6 min rest between them.

Endurance:
5. You should be able to do a 30 move sustained route of grade 6c-7a ten times with one minute rest between the goes. (A single fall on each of the two last laps is OK)

If your are on the strong side (can do 7a boulder of all lengths) it's ok to have less good endurance (ten laps on 6c), and vice versa. Select route accordingly.

Thanks for this. This is actually the sort of stuff Iíve been trying to figure out, and Iíve been struggling to find anything as clearly laid out as what youíve done here.

Going back to my original post, my thinking is to concentrate on bouldering / finger strength initially, as thatís the thing thatís going to take longest to (safely) improve to a sufficient level.

Iíll keep an element of threshold / aero in the mix, but fitted in around the strength stuff.

Iím already being more strategic at the wall in terms of spending more time on problems that clearly have similarities with the sort of routes Iím aiming for, and then worrying about the more random stuff afterwards.

Offline habrich

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2017, 07:12:04 pm »
Donít discount the holiday project.

Personally I would advise strongly against the holiday project. I tried it once on a thing in Spain when trying to break into 7c (in fact, duncan was one of my long-suffering belayers), flying over there 4-5 times with Ryanair in 2003-2004. It adds so many more variables, even if you can manage to get away without family in tow (which I could at that time).

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2017, 07:55:50 pm »
Personally, I prefer the idea of quick ascents on holiday. Depending on who I'd be with, I think 5 redpoints would probably be my max. I think, with limited opportunities for this sort of thing, aiming for a variety of easier ticks is going to do me more good in the long term than hammering one thing.

Offline duncan

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2017, 01:56:09 pm »
Donít discount the holiday project.

Personally I would advise strongly against the holiday project. I tried it once on a thing in Spain when trying to break into 7c (in fact, duncan was one of my long-suffering belayers), flying over there 4-5 times with Ryanair in 2003-2004. It adds so many more variables, even if you can manage to get away without family in tow (which I could at that time).

I'd forgotten that episode! I'm a complete theoretician when it comes to projecting so weight my advice accordingly.

Offline Rocksteady

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2017, 01:52:58 pm »
My dad projected an 8a aged 63. His approach was to choose a project local to where he lived (Dorset) and try it often over a number of months (probably approaching a year). To be fair, he actually probably did it in about 5 sessions once he worked out the right beta.

After each session he'd go away and work mainly on strength on his board. He made quite good progress just locking static holds with one hand and feet on, in positions similar to those he encountered on the route. He'd do 3 sets of 3 holding as long as he could. Seem to remember it was a fierce crimp, a weird sidepull and an undercut he worked.

He tried a few holiday 8as but went away empty handed as just never quite had the fitness. He figured it was easier to get strong and go bouldery as at his age it was hard for him to tolerate the volume required to get 8a endurance.


I am slightly dismayed by jwi's stats for climbing 7c in <5 goes. I was hoping to build up my volume of 7cs over next year or so but don't think I can do any of those feats. Maybe 3 if I had the boulder dialled. Must train harder!
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Offline kelvin

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2017, 02:53:15 pm »



I am slightly dismayed by jwi's stats for climbing 7c in <5 goes. I was hoping to build up my volume of 7cs over next year or so but don't think I can do any of those feats. Maybe 3 if I had the boulder dialled. Must train harder!

I was a bit puzzled by jwi's comments too - my mate Max had onsighted 4 x 8a and climbed 8b but was utterly lost on 7A when he came to Albarracin with myself and AJM. He was onsighting 7c for his warmups.
"I once saw Malc do Malc's One Armer with Ben and Jerry hanging from his feet. The photos were rubbish tho."

Offline Andy W

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2017, 04:22:02 pm »
I think there are so many variables, attempts at 'science' are problematic.

My advice would be choose a project that suits your strength and is local. I made a similar target for 8a before I was 50. I lived in Cornwall, deepest Penwith so I was a bit up against it on the local front. I chose Cider Soak because its good, but after a session on that realised seeping was an issue, so on a wet day wandered up to the wave at Cheddar and was shown a short and shit route, 'Crystal something or other', so switched my attention. It took me four sessions. I was bouldering up to high 7's and lacked endurance. History of sport climbing in the preceding ten years was a 7a and easy bolted multi pitch holiday.

So strengths in bouldering suited bouldery sport, the route was accessible and didn't seep. I think another factor was motivation, the target really helped, the approaching birthday made the pressure real. I also trained specifically, did 4x4's and had a similar length power endurance circuit that I projected on my board.

Good luck!!!

Offline jwi

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2017, 05:27:14 pm »

I was a bit puzzled by jwi's comments too - my mate Max had onsighted 4 x 8a and climbed 8b but was utterly lost on 7A when he came to Albarracin with myself and AJM. He was onsighting 7c for his warmups.

I take it he didn't onsight many of the 7c-routes that start with a 7a boulder, then an easy romp to the top then?

(But of course you have not to be able to do it all at the same time. Two weeks ago I could do all three 8as I tried within five goes, last week I couldn't do 6b in the gym... the style is too different, it takes two weeks for my bouldering level is starting to approach normal again. That has almost nothing to do with strength.)

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2017, 09:58:04 pm »
Some great tales of quests for the eighth grade - really interesting reading them.

Obviously thereís loads of variability in terms of whatís required for different routes, but I rather like jwiís approach - especially in terms of having some additional intermediate goals.

Inspired by Danís film, I got the Dorset Bouldering guide today, and am going to try to make time for some days away. I figured that, if I can start to crack limestone bouldering 7s before too long, Iíll be moving in the right direction. Iíve never bouldered on Portland before, but it does look pretty good, and sounds like thereís lots of stuff that will work throughout the winter.

Also managed to get a bit nearer to the first weight goal (i.e. under 90kg) without any cardio. When / if the weather improves down here Iíll add some running and cycling in and should be back to 80something for the first time in 5 years...


Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2017, 10:28:47 pm »
Also, if the bouldering goes ok then Breathing Method on Portland might be another option, although I doubt Iíd be quite as satisfied with a mid-route boulder problem as something more sustained. But it does look like quite a cool bit of climbing nonetheless...

If the harder Portland routes favour the tall then perhaps I should consider some others also.

Offline monkoffunk

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2017, 10:42:16 pm »
I chose Cider Soak because its good, but after a session on that realised seeping was an issue, so on a wet day wandered up to the wave at Cheddar and was shown a short and shit route, 'Crystal something or other', so switched my attention.

I'm pretty keen to climb my first 8a before too long, but did you really get that sense of satisfaction from climbing something so bad you don't even remember the name? (Liquid Crystal I think). I'd love to climb Cider Soak because it's awesome, not just because it's 8a. One move currently shutting me down though.
Something like silence of the lambs but with hedgehogs

Offline monkoffunk

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2017, 10:46:28 pm »
Also, if the bouldering goes ok then Breathing Method on Portland might be another option, although I doubt Iíd be quite as satisfied with a mid-route boulder problem as something more sustained. But it does look like quite a cool bit of climbing nonetheless...

If the harder Portland routes favour the tall then perhaps I should consider some others also.

From what I understand Breathing Method is really hard for 8a, might be your first soft 8a+ even! I'm exclusively bouldering until a font trip in October and then I'm going to be projecting the hell out of Fighting Torque. I've been on it once and it's awesome. Good enough to do even if it turns out to be 7c+. Consensus is good enough for me though!
Something like silence of the lambs but with hedgehogs

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2017, 10:50:19 pm »
Interesting - I will investigate FT!

Offline monkoffunk

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2017, 11:19:03 pm »
It's certainly worth a look!
Something like silence of the lambs but with hedgehogs