Author Topic: Project 8a  (Read 3818 times)

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2017, 02:27:10 pm »
Whatever you do, don't take up golf!

Or cycling!

Cycling can be useful as a general get fit/weight loss regime and is eminently compatible with family commitments. Cycle to the wall/work/family day out etc etc. Just try not to get too addicted  ;)

Cycling worked well for weight loss earlier in the year, and I am going to resume it, but probably mainly specific things on the turbo trainer, and 1hr or less at a time, as I find with faffing, outdoor rides end up taking too much time. I also seem to get less interference in terms of recovery from stuff like 2x 20 and 10x 2 than I do from longer, cold outdoor rides. Zwift is great for keeping it interesting indoors.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 02:31:27 pm »
With regards to keeping psyche levels high, I find it helps to have plenty of small, relevant, aims written down which you can tick off on your way to the big tick.

E.g. losing 2 Kg, doing 3 fingerboard sessions, 2 PE sessions, climbing a specific board project, actually going to and trying the 8a, doing some moves, linking the crux, etc. I'd actually argue the smaller the goals the better, as consistently taking away small positives will help with motivation, and momentum, and can make the whole process very enjoyable. Allez.

Iíve got a bit of this sort of stuff written on the fridge, but I think your suggestion of breaking it down even further is really good.

Thanks everyone for all the ideas and good wishes so far. From the various PMs Iíve received, it sounds like quite a few people have got similar goals, so hopefully sharing thoughts and reporting on progress will lead to some decent results!

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2017, 02:40:42 pm »
A less steep board than 45 degrees might be better at the start unless you are just planning to pull on jugs.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2017, 02:44:18 pm »
I did think that actually. When the space is clear (itís currently full of bits of our in progress kitchen) I will work out some possible layouts and refer back to the experts (yourself included).

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 02:52:49 pm »
My board has been 40 degrees in its last 2 incarnations. My brother in law who built it both times, this time managed to put it up at 45 degrees. I can't do some of the warm ups now.

Offline cheque

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2017, 02:58:33 pm »
Have you got any old fashioned non electric bathroom scales?  Use those to take weight off so you can start fingerboarding now without an excuse. Aim to be still fingerboarding in 2 months. Eg, take it super steady and don't get injured. I started with 50% bodyweight and worked up to full bodyweight hangs over a few months. Everybody talks like bodyweight hangs are a natural expectation but I just kept getting injured..

I need to do this. Am I right in thinking that you just stand on the scales and use them to measure how much you're pulling without your feet leaving them?

Offline habrich

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2017, 03:33:57 pm »
Have you got any old fashioned non electric bathroom scales?  Use those to take weight off so you can start fingerboarding now without an excuse. Aim to be still fingerboarding in 2 months. Eg, take it super steady and don't get injured. I started with 50% bodyweight and worked up to full bodyweight hangs over a few months. Everybody talks like bodyweight hangs are a natural expectation but I just kept getting injured..

I need to do this. Am I right in thinking that you just stand on the scales and use them to measure how much you're pulling without your feet leaving them?

Exactly. You could achieve the same result by standing on the ground and pulling down on the fingerboard. The point of the scales is only to quantify what you are doing.

Offline Oldmanmatt

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2017, 03:42:38 pm »
I think I should be free Tues, Thursday and Friday mornings (I don't open the Wall until 12) and I'm happy to hold a rope. I live 15mins walk from Ansteys.
I've been meaning to get back into some Sport, though the thought of doing more than ~6 moves in a row is daunting...

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Offline Nibile

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2017, 04:16:13 pm »
Yoss,
other than what others wrote, for my part I think that you should concentrate on losing fat, rather than just losing weight.

I totally agree, and I am going to think carefully about it.

From my experiences earlier this year, muscle loss has not been a problem so far. I dropped 4Ē around my waist (from an admittedly portly starting point) whilst simultaneously finding jackets no longer fit because my shoulders got too big.

Iím aiming for 2kg or so off a month, rather than trying to rush it.
Brilliant!
 :2thumbsup:
Great start!
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Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2017, 04:33:55 pm »
I think I should be free Tues, Thursday and Friday mornings (I don't open the Wall until 12) and I'm happy to hold a rope. I live 15mins walk from Ansteys.
I've been meaning to get back into some Sport, though the thought of doing more than ~6 moves in a row is daunting...

Matt - thatís really good of you. If we head down as a family I bet my daughter would be keen for a session at your wall.

Offline SA Chris

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2017, 05:15:29 pm »
Whatever you do, don't take up golf!

Or cycling!

Cycling can be useful as a general get fit/weight loss regime and is eminently compatible with family commitments. Cycle to the wall/work/family day out etc etc. Just try not to get too addicted  ;)


Was actually a reference to Duncan's comment to Nibile the other day. I agree, from a fat loss perspective it can be very beneficial, just don't end up with huge legs. Saying that I've done a fair bit of cycling over the last 18 months and I've still got spindles.

Regarding fat loss, i wouldn't dismiss running either, a lot less faff than getting out on bike and you can get in a much more intensive session than being on a bike (which is designed to enable you to get somewhere using less effort than walking or running in the first place). Interval sessions, or hill sessions can be good fat burners and improve your CV capacity too. Unless you have something that prevents you from running.

Also regard fat loss, be sensible with your food intake. Cut out as much alcohol as you can (I'm on about 1 - 2 units a week) and avoid eating really crap food (sweets, chocolate, crisps, fast food, sugary drinks) as much as possible. If you are on a sugar cycle cut out as much added sugar as you can for a week, and the cravings will go away. Then you can go back on it in moderation (worked for me anyway). As Nibile said though, don't crash diet early, as you will not be able to exercise and feel crappy, then just put it all back on.
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Offline monkoffunk

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2017, 06:42:11 pm »
Have you got any old fashioned non electric bathroom scales?  Use those to take weight off so you can start fingerboarding now without an excuse. Aim to be still fingerboarding in 2 months. Eg, take it super steady and don't get injured. I started with 50% bodyweight and worked up to full bodyweight hangs over a few months. Everybody talks like bodyweight hangs are a natural expectation but I just kept getting injured..

Out of interest what were you actually doing when you got injured? I.e. what kind of routine, times, grip, etc.
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Offline Oldmanmatt

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2017, 07:14:31 pm »
Yep. Repeaters just give me tendinitis. Max hangs and Frenchies only for me.
For me, I lost 12kg after my torn rotator cuff had me laid up for almost two years. I just started a food diary (MyFitnessPal) and counted calories/watched macros. That and training three times a week. I also started running/speed marching on rough ground/hills (load bearing).
A four hour march can burn 3/4000kcal with the right climb and load. It's surprisingly easy to fit in. I'll be up at 5 tomorrow and put in 4 hrs across the moors with 25lbs before work. Though I don't need to be there until 11:30, which helps.


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Offline erm, sam

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2017, 08:00:28 pm »
Quote
Out of interest what were you actually doing when you got injured? I.e. what kind of routine, times, grip, etc.
With regards to fingerboard I find doing anything full beans without a good warm up and a progression in sessions very likely to damage me. That "I feel great, I'm going to hang for 15 seconds because I just read an article about max hangs, even though I've only been doing 5s repeater hangs" type thing is what typically tweaks or twangs something. It normally feels fine in the session but then gets sore next day/next session.

This is a challenge as I get very excited about things and get carried away. Over and over again. So I really am structured for FB sessions now. This is helped by people like Steve Bechtel saying you can get stronger working at 80% max, it doesn't have to be max effort all the time. Sorry Nibs for the blasphemy.

Offline Oldmanmatt

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Project 8a
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2017, 08:42:25 pm »
  This is helped by people like Steve Bechtel saying you can get stronger working at 80% max, it doesn't have to be max effort all the time. Sorry Nibs for the blasphemy.

Unless I'm missing something from your post, that's just standard strength training. You establish or predict your 1 rm. Better to predict, than incur injury empirically testing...
Easy for upper body resistance, use the thumb rule, based on something you can manage less than 10 reps of:

1rm= resistance x 1/(1-(reps x 0.025))

So, if you could bench 80kg 5 times, to failure; then your 1 rm would be ~91.4kg.

So training would be 3sets of 3 reps @ 80% of that.

It's a continuum. You'd still have better strength gains and less hypertrophy using your I rm. up to a point. There's just a much higher risk of injury in that zone.



This is harder to apply to endurance, like max hangs etc, there you just need to keep pushing your boundaries, just not too often.
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Offline cheque

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2017, 08:57:43 pm »
Am I right in thinking that you just stand on the scales and use them to measure how much you're pulling without your feet leaving them?

Exactly. You could achieve the same result by standing on the ground and pulling down on the fingerboard. The point of the scales is only to quantify what you are doing.

Cheers, a snag is that my fingerboard's on a board in a doorway at about head height- to hang from it I'm lifting my legs up so they're not on the floor. I just measured the distance and I reckon if I put some books on top of the scales and kneel on them it will work though.

Offline Oldmanmatt

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2017, 10:37:15 pm »
Am I right in thinking that you just stand on the scales and use them to measure how much you're pulling without your feet leaving them?

Exactly. You could achieve the same result by standing on the ground and pulling down on the fingerboard. The point of the scales is only to quantify what you are doing.

Cheers, a snag is that my fingerboard's on a board in a doorway at about head height- to hang from it I'm lifting my legs up so they're not on the floor. I just measured the distance and I reckon if I put some books on top of the scales and kneel on them it will work though.
You can also use luggage scales+harness+sling+hook under board, where height is an issue.
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Offline Nibile

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2017, 10:41:21 pm »
This is helped by people like Steve Bechtel saying you can get stronger working at 80% max, it doesn't have to be max effort all the time. Sorry Nibs for the blasphemy.
;D
You may be surprised to know that I love max efforts but rarely train at my maximum. I use max effort on singles as a mental challenge and to measure real progress, rather than predicted ones. It's true that if you go from 5 to 8 reps at your 80% you know that your max has improved, but one thing is to know it from the numbers, another thing is to actually do it. Especially on the mental side.
On the injury side, yes, it's true that max singles are dangerous, but so are the last reps of basically everything, especially if your form breaks down and if you go with high reps in highly technical excercises (deadlifts, snatch pulls, etc). The limit is the limit, be it on a single rep or on many reps.
So, I regularly train at high percentages of my max but basically never at my absolute max.
The problem is that many people misunderstand the percentage thing, they imply that it has to feel easy. It must not! So, training at 80% is in reality 60% because they don't push hard enough to reach the 80% limit.
You're training at 80% only if you apply your full potential for the 80% load. I've rarely seen this. Most people leave a lot in the tank and so the load could well be 80% of max but the complete effort is much less.
Basically, for each percentage there's its own limit, and to train at a certain percentage you have to train at its specific limit.
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Offline Muenchener

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2017, 06:47:49 am »
I also started running/speed marching on rough ground/hills (load bearing).
A four hour march can burn 3/4000kcal with the right climb and load.

I was doing a lot of that sort of thing as training for long alpine rocks routes & approaches, and stopped last Autumn because I decided to focus more on sport climbing. Promptly put on three kilos between October and Christmas, which I'm still struggling to shift.

Otoh I still think doing any *hard* cardio training must interfere with recovery for climbing specific training.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 06:59:18 am by Muenchener »
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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2017, 08:59:36 am »
I find that lengthy cycle rides effect my core so climbing is often compromised the day after doing 3 or 4 hours on the bike. This is more so in winter when I find that a long ride is harder due to the wind being thicker.

Offline duncan

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2017, 11:22:28 am »
The Cider Soak is probably the one, in terms of things down south...

I live on the coast in the SE and therefore miles away from any sport climbing. Portland is 3 1/2 hours away. I realise there are quite a few places in the SW (Brean, Cheddar, Ansteys, etc) that could be done in a day.

Cider Soak might be the most inspiring 8a south of the Manifold Valley but wonít Anstey's be a mission from E. Sussex?  It's an hour further than Cheddar, Brean or Portland, roughly as far as the Peak. Maintaining motivation for regular nine+ hour round trips will be quite an ask on top of aligning fitness, partners, conditions, and family.

Donít discount the holiday project. Frankenjura is great for families though possibly not for soft 8as or diet. Long weekend there fairly soon to scope possiblities, do your training, another short trip in Spring to check progress, then return for a week next summer and crush!


Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2017, 11:48:19 am »
Weíre looking at a couple of family weekend trips down there this autumn, plus doing a day there / day on Dartmoor with someone else. And then the occasional day mission.

I guess this is part of the theme of the exercise - itís far from an ideal set of circumstances, but with some creative planning I think itís basically viable.

Years ago I tried Anabolica at Siurana (with an extremely low degree of success it must be said) and that is definitely something Iíd like to consider as a foreign project. I need to investigate the Frankenjura a bit more - I find it quite impenetrable in terms of route research - but I like your thinking.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2017, 11:50:36 am »
I have done Sennen in a day from here which, though itís not something Iíd repeat regularly, wasnít actually too bad. Following the coast with a very early start.

Offline seankenny

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2017, 12:30:42 pm »

Donít discount the holiday project. Frankenjura is great for families though possibly not for soft 8as or diet. Long weekend there fairly soon to scope possiblities, do your training, another short trip in Spring to check progress, then return for a week next summer and crush!

Holiday project surely depends on where its easiest to fly to out of Gatwick? Second is most reliable weather. Also, are you able to do climbing-only trips or does there need to be a family-friendly element? If that's the case, then perhaps make trips to Font a key part of your training/improving, as Font is super for non-climbers and easy for you to get to from Hastings.

Offline nash1

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Re: Project 8a
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2017, 12:53:39 pm »
Good thread this, I will be following closely.
I am of course in the same boat. 5kgs too heavy, in the grip of cycling, soon to be 45 and still aiming for 8a. Got back into training last winter and went straight to golfers elbow - that is cleared up now - so how to get training again slowly without injuries is an issue.
My route is only 15 mins from home, I should have done it in 2010, but never got me arse in gear. I was redpointing and expected success but it never happened - so all the 7c+'s are still the highpoint gradewise.

Aiming to tick it in April, but whether that is 2018 or '19 remains to be seen!
Hehehe