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Too much Ancap / too little Aerocap - makes you pumped? (Read 1100 times)

petejh

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I've been working ancap 1-2 times per week for the last 7 weeks on the latticeboard and moonboard (1 each per week). Have also been trying to go tradding as aerocap training (and because it's fun!) once/twice per week so I don't neglect aerobic system.. but sometimes miss out because of work/partners/weather.

The ancap is going well and I'm improving week-on-week, feeling pretty 'ancap fit/strong'.

But recently got pumped stupid and hung on a classically 'aerobic' sport route that I've never fallen off and can normally use as a warm-up. It rang alarm bells and made me think I've over-done the ancap and under-done the aerocap as per the advice in Barrow's training pdf. Anyone else experienced this side-effect of ancap training? And if so how quickly can you bring the aero system back in-line with a (relatively) over-developed anaerobic system?

I've started doing extra aerocap indoors to try to catch up!

moose

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I don't really get the distinctions between the various caps/pows/aeros/ans (I still think in terms of power / power-endurance / stamina) but is it possible your Ancap training is more powerful than you realise, and you are overly recruited / powerful?

I had horrendous stamina during the Spring part of this limestone season, and felt incredibly unfit, despite having climbed more of late.  I suspected it was because I had recently got a woodie and had been doing more short, brutal steep problems than usual (6 move blocs on a 40 degree board with shit footholds).  I was massively over recruited and overgripping everything for months - almost getting terminal pumps on Consenting Adults and incapable recovering at shake-outs (felt very strong on cruxes, mind, just incapable of anything with more than 10 moves). 

I eventually got over it, but it took a few months (possibly an extreme case - I went from total plodder to power obsessed over 2-3 months).  The cure for me was to bin the major goals and  adopt an ungalmorous stamina training project (Sticky Wicket into the Ashes) where success depended on being able to recover at rests.... and just keeping turning up and suffering until it went.

Ally Smith

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I've been working ancap 1-2 times per week for the last 7 weeks.

Have also been trying to go tradding as aerocap training (and because it's fun!) once/twice per week so I don't neglect aerobic system.. but sometimes miss out because of work/partners/weather.

https://goo.gl/photos/oGPAxWeE5VcSWHtM8

Looking at the table Tom shared with me previously, it seems to suggest that you're only just starting to improve your an-cap system, and that the effect you're currently feeling is probably more to do with over-gripping than actually making significant changes in your physiology.

Your plan to increase aero-cap training alongside the an-cap is wise; better to not get too un-balanced.

The final tune-up of aero-power training will take (up to) a couple of months and will help with the balancing out. I hope you have enough time to fit all this in before you want to "Peak"?

petejh

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Interesting comparison Moose.

I feel like over-gripping isn't my problem, I can feel the forearm is acting differently to 'usually' (i.e. when I haven't just had two months of ancap training on steep board and lattice), it's producing more lactic.

My understanding is I'm increasing my ancap from session number 1. The adaptation time to full potential is an average for 'geneticly average climber x' to reach full potential, but the potential increases over time rather than suddenly start adapting after 'week x'.

Not a bad 'problem' to have really as I'm strong(ish) and now have good strength-endurance over 10-15 hard moves, and the solution seems to be just continue with lots of nice aerocapping territory aka 'trad' and aero finishers indoors following ancap sesh's.

Also I'm over trying to peak for routes Ally!.. after two years of experimenting I've come to the conclusion it simply doesn't work well in the UK to go through a 12-16 week periodised build-up to give yourself a 4 to 6-week golden window of beastliness; during which weather, partners, route conditions and work pressures all impinge on opportunities to make full use of the momentarily increased performance. For me the sacrifice and demotivating effect of missing out doing other good stuff isn't worth the payoff.
So I'm following a general periodised training plan but with a view to long-term gains, not annual peaks, while still fitting in all the other stuff I like doing - trad climbing, ice climbing, bouldering, mixed climbing, dry-tooling, alpine,   that might not be optimal training for my goal routes. Will still be trying Mecca this autumn but I won't be trying too hard to time things just right/taper/stress over the length of a peak period etc.

For a foreign trip to tick a specific route or routes I think periodising/sacrificing other climbing is probably worth it.

abarro81

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It sounds feasible that you're overly anaerobic and your aero isn't keeping up. I had a winter a few years back where I did quite a lot of an cap but not much aero cap due to an elbow issue not liking doing volume. That Spring I did well redpointing (Pilgrimage, Kaabah etc) but had my ass handed to me onsighting in Europe... I suspect that that was part of the reason, although I may be wrongfully attributing things...

Fortunately for you, since Mecca is a long boulder problem to a no-hander to a short boulder problem, and you're redpointing, you should be able to get away with being pretty damn unfit in an aero sense!

P.S. This is largely likely to be a function of my predisposition to endurance and having a decent volume of route experience and enduro training behind me, and will obviously vary person to person, but if I were making a plan that was based around long-term progress it would basically be this:
1) Go bouldering, bouldering-on-a-rope and exclusively strength training for as many years in a row as I could hack mentally
2) Train for routes for 6-12 months
3) Make Patxi cry by burning him off

Nibile

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1) Go bouldering, bouldering-on-a-rope and exclusively strength training for as many years in a row as I could hack mentally
2) Train for routes for 6-12 months
3) Make Patxi cry by burning him off
Nice plan. By the look of things I'm still in the first part. I intend to keep training strength for another 12/15 years, then burn Patxi off when I'm 60.

jwi

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1) Go bouldering, bouldering-on-a-rope and exclusively strength training for as many years in a row as I could hack mentally
2) Train for routes for 6-12 months
3) Make Patxi cry by burning him off

I have a friend who tried this plan. Based on his experience I'd say that you need more than 6-12 months for stage 2. (He did like 20 hours/week of training during stage 2. And even after 18 months in stage 2 he was stronger at bouldering than at route climbing. I should mention that he's a very good long distance runner as well....)

petejh

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Yep nice plan.
'If you're not strong enough to do the move, there's nothing to endure'  (A.Wiseman, 198sometime)

Chris Webb Parsnip casually flashing/onsighting The Brute springs to mind when I think of brute strength with some fitness added on.

Sidehaas

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I've been working ancap 1-2 times per week for the last 7 weeks on the latticeboard and moonboard (1 each per week). Have also been trying to go tradding as aerocap training (and because it's fun!) once/twice per week so I don't neglect aerobic system.. but sometimes miss out because of work/partners/weather.

The ancap is going well and I'm improving week-on-week, feeling pretty 'ancap fit/strong'.

But recently got pumped stupid and hung on a classically 'aerobic' sport route that I've never fallen off and can normally use as a warm-up. It rang alarm bells and made me think I've over-done the ancap and under-done the aerocap as per the advice in Barrow's training pdf. Anyone else experienced this side-effect of ancap training? And if so how quickly can you bring the aero system back in-line with a (relatively) over-developed anaerobic system?

I've started doing extra aerocap indoors to try to catch up!

I found just 3 weeks of aeropow, ie foot on campusing, worked wonders for me in this respect. 3 sessions per week was all it needed. Each session was to keep going as long as I could, rest for the same time as I had been going, then repeat until after 7-8 reps the rest period equalled the on period. Takes about 30 minutes post a short warmup.