[old cheese]

I am heading off to Crankenjura for a couple of weeks with the family so....
Advice on crags would be greatgully received

We will have several children in tow ranging from 3-9 so crags with smallish Walk ins  and a range of grades from 5's to high 7's

I have both the old guides ( in Germanic tongue) but they are so massive it is hard to distinguish the wheat form the chaff easily. ( and I heard there is some chaff)

[Muenchener]

Are these French or UIAA fives and sevens?

Let me know and I'll have a ponder. Heading up at the weekend, so will be able to report on current connies on Sunday night if that helps - when are you travelling?

Weather has been horribly hot & humid for weeks though.Stadeltenne would definitely be among the default north facing summer recommendations for the (french) sevens, though nothing really by way of worthwhile easier stuff.

[Muenchener]

Oh and given the hot weather, the open air pools at Betzenstein and Pottenstein will be top tips for the kids.

As is canoeing on the Pegnitz - Tom will sort you out: http://www.kanutom.com/

[old cheese]

muenchener,

Ahh sorry, French grades!

Also cheers for the suggestions for the kids. Always looking for stuff to do with them inbetween climbing days.

We are three weeks away from leaving yet, just starting my research early.

Cheers

[duncan]

As someone who hates swimming pools, the Pottenstien open-air one is great. It's free (!) and uses a reedbed filtration system so not chlorinated.

The Sommerrodelbahnen toboggan /downhill roller-coaster thing is good fun. €3 a go or multiple ride tickets available.

The icecreams in Gössweinstein are delicious and great value at €1. Perfect post-climb food if you go to the Obere Gössweinsteiner wände. This has a ten minute approach, is north facing, and has a selection of routes at your grades includuing the Kurt Albert classic Sautanz (state of the art 1981: vertical, crimps and pockets, and looks nails at 7b+). It's the only crag I've climbed on in the 'jura so no idea how it compares to others but would be rated as half-decent in The Peak.

[Muenchener]

I haven't been to the Obere Gössweinsteiner Wände yet but it certainly has the reputation as one of the top old school crags. Sautanz is on my big ambitions list ever since one of the Anderson brothers of RCTM fame said in his blog it's a contender for the best 5.12 he's ever done.

Ankatal Südwand is south facing but shady and looks amazing but is a bit above my current level - the classics start at old school & very solid 7a (Computerspiele) and go up from there.

Hartensteiner Wand is one of the nicer easier summer crags with lots of good stuff in the 5c to 6b range and very scenic. Great food at the Goldener Lamm. Elfenwelt is another nice relaxed family spot in the woods.

The other very popular family crag for hot days is the Leupoldsteiner Wand. Avoid like the plague. Less than one minute approach, and lots of easier routes, but therefore horribly crowded; tends to be hot, sticky & greasy even though it's in the shade, and *very* old school (= blatantly irresponsible & dangerous) bolting on many routes.

I went to look at the Schwarze Wand & Bandstein a couple of weeks ago, they were damp but look fantastic with 30-40 metre big pitches in the 6b to 7b range. East facing so go in the afternoon if it's sunny.

If the kids want to climb. I'm told Wolfstein is the place. Lots of very easy routes, with a sector round the corner with some 6a/b stuff to keep the grownups at least a little bit amused.

And since Duncan started in with the gastronomy tips: I usually camp at Gasthof Fischer in Stierberg, and even if you're not staying there it's worth a visit for the food. Melissa Le Neve I'm told dines at the Betzenstube in Betzenstein when she's working AD, but I suspect she's unlikely to be doing that in the middle of hot summer. Although it has had an ascent recently.

Remind me in a couple of weeks if the weather has turned  & you suddenly need quick drying, south facing tips .

Lastly, I always point people at this handy list of selected top tips: http://topoguide.de/topoguide-Magazin/Sektoren_und_Routen_Franken.pdf

[old cheese]

Cheers chaps 

Just the sort of info I need. The spreadsheet is a useful tool too.

I did hear that there were some crags that were more 'sportingly' graded than others or isn't it that clear cut?

Suatanz looks great and what I am looking for but also steeper stuff at about the same grade and poss a little harder.

[Muenchener]

Just like in most places, the difference is mostly between old school and new school – and even on the old school routes, I generally find the grades at the level I operate at pretty standard for the actual physical difficulty of the climbing, they just sometimes *feel* harder because of the rather minimalist bolting style. Particularly avoid routes put up by Stefan Löw unless you’re either well within your grade or feeling brave – although Kurt was also very much in the “if you’re not going to die then it’s ok” school of bolting.

The Soranger Wand is a bit short but otherwise fun for steep jug hauling. South facing but at the top of a hill, so gets whatever breeze is going – as we discovered when my thin mate turned blue as the third hail shower of the day passed through just before we bailed to Café Kraft for the afternoon.

For some tips at the harder end of the scale you might want to check out Mark Anderson's excellent series of blog posts : https://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2014/12/02/germany-part-iv-blitzing-the-classics/

[Muenchener]

Suatanz looks great and what I am looking for but also steeper stuff at about the same grade and poss a little harder.

Sounds like you might be looking for Vogeln Verboten in the Grüne Hölle: a 7c+ that looks like three 45 degree board problems stacked together. You get a chance to gape at the 9a to its left while hanging from the bolts too.

[Ru]

Sounds like you might be looking for Vogeln Verboten in the Grüne Hölle: a 7c+ that looks like three 45 degree board problems stacked together. You get a chance to gape at the 9a to its left while hanging from the bolts too.

Except the mosquitos at Grüne Hölle will eat you alive at this time of year if its warm and humid.

Old Cheese - I've just sent you a FB message with the contents of an email I wrote to someone else last year with a load of crag and route recommendations up to 7c/+. I can give you some more recommendations up to 8b/+ and also some kid friendly non-climbing activities if you like.

[old cheese]

 Ru, thanks for the info. 8b+ may be a tad optimistic bit all the other info was spot on thanks. Having a 9 and 5 r old tagging along means we have to concider other activities but am happy to do in such a new place

[Muenchener]

So, connies report from the weekend: still warm, but ok on north facing crags in the woods. Saturday was close to perfect: 25 degrees, but felt less in the shade with a bit of breeze. We were at Herzwand, which has a reputation for being perma-wet – bone dry. Sunday was less breeze and a bit more humid, but still far better than it has been for the last few weeks.

Medium term forecast for the next couple of weeks remains hot & sunny with occasional thundery intervals.

[old cheese]

All of the advice has been great thanks. I have been marking the pages off in my collection of guide books!!

Muenchener, any climatic advice and info gratefully received. We should be touching down at Marthas campsite in a weeks time, maybe a little longer if we take our time over the journey. Looking forward to it immensely though not as fit as I wanted to be by this late stage. We should be there for at least a couple of weeks weather permitting.

[Wood FT]

Any ideas how the Frankenjura conditions would be in March/April time? Similar to here? Just purchased a guidebook and psyched off me marbles. Ta

[Ru]

The cliffs in the Frankenjura tend to seep a lot during winter, so their condition in March/April will depend a lot on whether it has been a dry or wet winter. Could be ok, could be pretty seepy - like here really.

[Wood FT]

Thanks, will just leave it 'till nearer the time.

[Muenchener]

There's a charming early season phenomenon where the surface of the rock looks dry, but inside the pockets damp mud lurks.

I'll report back if I manage to get out much in the spring.

[Wood FT]

Now that really does sound like home.