UKBouldering.com





Breathing and hard climbing (Read 2931 times)

Will Hunt

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Cute and fluffy
  • Posts: 4073
  • Karma: +293/-64
    • Unknown Stones
#25 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 12:49:04 pm
The flipside of all this talk is I think the next level of local eliminates would be to do problems without breathing. Especially longer things like powerband, stuff like that. Could be a whole new set of challenges out there. In the same way that in Kabaddi they have to constantly say "kabaddi" to prove you're not breathing in, we should do something similar for kabaddi bouldering. Maybe just chanting "waddage" during climbing.

Isn't this already a thing in high-altitude mountaineering where they do things without oxygen?
Shark's next big goal: eatswood Traverse Without Oxygen.

Eddies

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1165
  • Karma: +52/-6
#26 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 12:51:59 pm
The flipside of all this talk is I think the next level of local eliminates would be to do problems without breathing. Especially longer things like powerband, stuff like that. Could be a whole new set of challenges out there. In the same way that in Kabaddi they have to constantly say "kabaddi" to prove you're not breathing in, we should do something similar for kabaddi bouldering. Maybe just chanting "waddage" during climbing.
Explains why I'm log at trad... Chanting "I'm on toprope" during climbing and "calm the fook down" during rests for the full duration of my climbs.

dave

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 18781
  • Karma: +610/-9
  • Ex-moderator, forced out.
#27 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 12:53:39 pm
Shark's next big goal: eatswood Traverse Without Oxygen.

But that would imply he has a specific weakness at climbing WITH oxygen, which seems unlikely.

remus

more Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 424
  • Karma: +11/-1
#28 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 01:34:12 pm
Typical yoga vid! - 2mins10seconds out of 2mins16seconds contains useful practical information that anybody can follow on how to develop breathing techniques. The last 6 seconds has philosophical jargon about evening out your consciousness that will mean nothing to most people.

Seems like a pretty good ratio really. In most sports science literature it's the other way round.

Will Hunt

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Cute and fluffy
  • Posts: 4073
  • Karma: +293/-64
    • Unknown Stones
#29 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 01:40:07 pm
Shark's next big goal: eatswood Traverse Without Oxygen.

But that would imply he has a specific weakness at climbing WITH oxygen, which seems unlikely.

I think Shark's weakness are more general than specific.

Dan Cheetham

more Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 206
  • Karma: +11/-0
#30 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 02:05:35 pm
Shark's next big goal: eatswood Traverse Without Oxygen.

But that would imply he has a specific weakness at climbing WITH oxygen, which seems unlikely.

Surely it can't be hard to recognise that for an experienced focussed climber, the risks involved in climbing the eatswood traverse without oxygen are significantly less than your average punter attempting it fully oxygenated

shark

more Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5930
  • Karma: +392/-7
  • insect overlord #1
#31 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 03:00:06 pm
we were also taught how a deep breathing out exercise to empty our lungs. Which came in very handy when I got breathalysed.

I heard a rumour that the other Grit Johnny used a circular breathing technique to good effect when pulled over
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 04:19:46 pm by shark »

tomtom

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 15416
  • Karma: +456/-7
#32 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 03:28:23 pm
Power braying. It's the secret in climbing no one dare mention...

I will pay 100 to a nominated charity - if someone posts a video of Shark making loud donkey noises all the way up one of his Oak redpoints.

mrjonathanr

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2751
  • Karma: +111/-5
#33 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 05:50:42 pm
Difficulty breathing when climbing- isn't that a sign of a weak core? We don't inhale as such do we? Just expand the rib cage so that air flows in to an area of lower pressure.

Good breathing habits would help, but might this not be a thoracic strength issue?

Ps as said above yoga's breathing, the stretching's a bonus

mrjonathanr

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2751
  • Karma: +111/-5
#34 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 05:54:55 pm
I went to a workshop with Kino last year, it was quite hard work, nearly took my breath away...

tomtom

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 15416
  • Karma: +456/-7
#35 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 09:06:35 pm
I went to a workshop with Kino last year, it was quite hard work, nearly took my breath away...

How much did you have to cough up for it?

Dolly

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1857
  • Karma: +71/-0
#36 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 15, 2017, 09:16:35 pm
Power braying. It's the secret in climbing no one dare mention...

I will pay 100 to a nominated charity - if someone posts a video of Shark making loud donkey noises all the way up one of his Oak redpoints.
Does it have to be climbing ? - ie are other activities allowed ?
(Searches old video footage on phone)

SA Chris

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 22501
  • Karma: +453/-8
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix

Nibile

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6841
  • Karma: +615/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#38 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 16, 2017, 10:39:05 am
Sorry for the late reply.
I think the main thing here, as per OP, is being able to breathe while under serious core effort, rather than simply being able to have "alternative" breathing (expanding the ribs sideways, or expanding at the belly or at the clavicles).
I've been training this by stopping at a certain moment of a strength excercise and focusing on breathing without collapsing under the load.
Typically, at the bottom of a squat, or at mid-height during a deadlift, or at full stretch during the ab wheel rollouts, or after the clean during a clean and press.
Every for of loaded carry is also super beneficial, from farmer's to overhead barbell, with the hardest of them all, in my opinion, being with the barbell carried at shoulders height without resting on them or on the sternum.

Now I will let you all practice your breathing with your lycra, your incenses and your chants, while I hide once and again in my garage full of firearms, nazi flags and posters of Arnold, George W. and Donald.

rjtrials

more Offline
  • *
  • newbie
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-4
#39 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 16, 2017, 02:16:02 pm
I have practiced a bit of Ashtanga on and off over the years and the main crossover to climbing I got from it was movement WITH the breath.  The breath was the first focus, followed by the movement.

I realized that the normal breathing pattern for hand moves was 'out.'  Therefore, the breathing pattern for foot moves needs to be 'in.'  This pattern needs to be practiced with EVERY climb, but you can only learn it on easy/warmups.  If the focus of all movement is with the breath, you can't really forget to breathe, but this habit has to be formed over many days and many many moves on easy terrain where you can forge new mental and breathing patterns.

It's true, that some moves require so much tension, that no breathing is possible.  However, there is usually a space BETWEEN the moves where the breath is possible.  So having the breathing engrams in place, you will naturally grab this breath between strenuous moves.

There is also the possibility that the intercostals are not strong enough to force breath while the body is under tension so these patterns need to be trained as well.  Almost all of my supplemental core work is done on breath count instead of reps or time.  A 'hardstyle' plank held for 5 breaths will be VERY short at first because you can't really breathe with that much tension.  But as your mind and body adapt, and the breaths become slower, the TUT will become longer.  A front lever progression with breath counts instead of time is also VERY good at forcing breath during maximum body tension.

Hope this all makes sense and Shark gets enough O2 to tick a new box  ;D ;D ;D

duncan

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1645
  • Karma: +198/-1
#40 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 19, 2017, 05:31:22 pm
... Johnny used a circular breathing technique

Johnny circular breathing


tomtom

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 15416
  • Karma: +456/-7
#41 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 19, 2017, 08:44:54 pm
I know we're in the realms of marginal gains discussion here..... but basically, doesn't Shark just have to get stronger?

;)

petejh

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3116
  • Karma: +330/-15
#42 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 19, 2017, 10:31:06 pm
[sound of hammer hitting head of nail]
Doesn't Shark just have to get stronger?
[/sound of hammer hitting head of nail]

shark

more Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5930
  • Karma: +392/-7
  • insect overlord #1
#43 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 19, 2017, 11:54:21 pm
Saying 'just' suggests its easy. Which it isn't. i just have to breathe faster. Which is

nai

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3103
  • Karma: +137/-0
  • In my dreams
#44 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 20, 2017, 08:15:58 am
Breathing faster is now the key to climbing harder?

tomtom

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 15416
  • Karma: +456/-7
#45 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 20, 2017, 08:40:42 am
Saying 'just' suggests its easy. Which it isn't. i just have to breathe faster. Which is

The solution is easy.

The execution of the solution less so.

Put down that BMC sponsored doughnut you're about to eat and DO SOME WEIGHTS.

:)

moose

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Lankenstein's Monster
  • Posts: 2100
  • Karma: +153/-1
  • el flaco lento
#46 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 20, 2017, 08:48:07 am
Put down that BMC sponsored doughnut you're about to eat and DO SOME WEIGHTSED HANGS
:)

Perhaps would be more appropriate?  I don't think Shark suffers from insufficient muscle mass.

Will Hunt

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Cute and fluffy
  • Posts: 4073
  • Karma: +293/-64
    • Unknown Stones
#47 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 20, 2017, 02:34:47 pm
There's actually one glaringly obvious thing which Shark hasn't done yet which will lead to success on the Oak. He should arrive at Malham and warm up by holding a large edge at about waist height and bending his knees. He should then attempt the Oak and fall off either throwing to the horn or doing that top traverse.
He should then lower off and go for a walk to the top of the cove. This is the crucial bit. He mustn't be carried, he must walk and he must walk right to the top. Once there he can sleep if he chooses.
On returning back to the catwalk he should return to the waist level edge and hold it while bending his knees for 5 minutes.
He will then climb the Oak.

shark

more Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5930
  • Karma: +392/-7
  • insect overlord #1
#48 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 20, 2017, 02:49:41 pm
There's actually one glaringly obvious thing which Shark hasn't done yet which will lead to success on the Oak. He should arrive at Malham and warm up by holding a large edge at about waist height and bending his knees. He should then attempt the Oak and fall off either throwing to the horn or doing that top traverse.
He should then lower off and go for a walk to the top of the cove. This is the crucial bit. He mustn't be carried, he must walk and he must walk right to the top. Once there he can sleep if he chooses.
On returning back to the catwalk he should return to the waist level edge and hold it while bending his knees for 5 minutes.
He will then climb the Oak.

Oh dear. I have done all this. My warm pre-redpoint warm up includes doing various pulls on low undercuts, having a go then doing the walk. Does this mean there is no hope?

nai

more Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3103
  • Karma: +137/-0
  • In my dreams
#49 Re: Breathing and hard climbing
June 20, 2017, 03:07:17 pm
No, you could replicate, and perhaps improve on,  what you did in autumn 2015?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk