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Training advice needed (Read 2865 times)

Scouse D

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Training advice needed
April 21, 2017, 04:35:40 pm
Hello all. As you may be aware i fucked up my ankle about 18 mths ago and it appears that bouldering ( ie jumping off) has not been helping. I have decided to take this opportunity to get some route fitness and maybe get on some lime sport this summer.
I have done some sport before but all short stuff sprinting for the chains.
I therefore have no idea how to do this...
I have a works membership so was planning to do laps on the circuit board. Do i just warm up then set off until i cant hold on anymore? Then rinse and repeat?
I know this is basics but i have no clue.
Water is H2O.

James Malloch

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#1 Re: Training advice needed
April 21, 2017, 05:40:09 pm
Barrows did a good document called "Training for Sport Climbing". http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.com.es/2014/02/training-for-sport-climbing.html

Like many I've been using this to base my training on and it offers a bunch of training exercises for each of your energy systems (which are all explained in the document). I'd say it's a good place to start and have a read through to get an idea of his recommendations.

For me, I'm not very clued up on training at all but I've found that using this has given me some good structure to follow and I've seen some good gains in my sport climbing recently.

I can't offer any more advice than this really but it's been a great, easy to follow resource for me.

mrjonathanr

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#2 Re: Training advice needed
April 21, 2017, 08:05:08 pm

I have a works membership so was planning to do laps on the circuit board. Do i just warm up then set off until i cant hold on anymore? Then rinse and repeat?


My tuppence...
Fiirstly, you won't do much volume if you get boxed every go, that isn't efficient for getting fit.
Lots of easy  volume for generally hanging in there on easier ground.
Shorter, harder reps with intervals for power-stamina (as I learned it) eg 4x4s
Bouldering walls are good for building fitness.
máquina parcial

nai

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#3 Re: Training advice needed
April 21, 2017, 08:42:51 pm
Lots of easy  volume for generally hanging in there on easier ground.

Ships prow in mini works is good for this when it's not too busy (main wall is always too busy), up and down the problems and round and round.

Shorter, harder reps with intervals for power-stamina (as I learned it) eg 4x4s

The easier works circuits (<7a) are pretty hard on the hands, unless you have rhino skin you won't want to be doing multiple sessions on them in a week so certainly include some 4x4s as an alternative.  Foot on campussing is also a simple, effective way of blowing your forearms to pieces developing your high-level endurance.

Guess it goes without saying that you can take some pretty nasty falls swinging into the rock that could damage an uninjured ankle so take care out there, choose your routes carefully.
Luck favours the Prepared

mrjonathanr

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#4 Re: Training advice needed
April 21, 2017, 09:55:22 pm
.

Guess it goes without saying that you can take some pretty nasty falls swinging into the rock that could damage an uninjured ankle so take care out there, choose your routes carefully.

Get a belayer who pays out rope when you fall ( a metre, not a ground fall) for a soft catch. Someone who anxiously locks off and jumps backwards is guaranteed to send you crashing into the wall.
máquina parcial

jwi

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#5 Re: Training advice needed
April 22, 2017, 11:56:09 am
If you want to get continentally fit, start with putting money in the bank. Boring as fuck. Get some good music/e-books/podcasts and tight fitting gardening gloves. The goal is to do as many moves as possible for 4 weeks. Increase every week.

If you only bouldered before aim to get in 600 moves per session first week. Up to maybe 1200-1600 moves at week 4. You can split this anyway you like.

After this you can start doing harder circuits, you'll get brutally fit. 100% personal guarantee. (I haven't done this for years, despite knowing that I'll probably gain a grad or two)

James Malloch

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#6 Re: Training advice needed
April 22, 2017, 12:33:57 pm
JWI, I've often wondered about that approach having heard it mentioned in the past. When you say moves, is that just a case of doing the easiest things possible over and over? Or do you try and squeeze some harder things in too?

jwi

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#7 Re: Training advice needed
April 22, 2017, 01:53:22 pm
Don't worry about difficulty. The hard part is doing all the moves. Stay on relevant terrain for your goals. Macia use to have plenty of enormous jugs on the steep walls of his gym. As a reference: Patxi Usoibaga never climbed harder than 7b+ during his volume block (when he onsighted 8c/+ and won world cups).

Best if a coach who's well acquainted with the method can give you some help; most people underestimate the amount of work needed. A good onsight climber with several years of training behind them should be able to knock off 2500 moves per session by the end. It's should be really hard, you'll need an easy week after the block to recover. A boulderer might totally wreck themselves by doing 2500 moves in a session.

I did it self-coached and mostly increased the difficulty instead of the volume over time—several reliable sources have told me that was a daft idea; still had really good results.

Scouse D

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#8 Re: Training advice needed
April 22, 2017, 02:02:07 pm
Thanks everyone, this is good stuff.
Water is H2O.

dave

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#9 Re: Training advice needed
April 22, 2017, 07:38:49 pm
I bet just sticking to lowball traverses is looking more attractive by the second.
I'm trying to run a high-class bureau-de-change

BicepsMou

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#10 Re: Training advice needed
April 23, 2017, 07:14:36 am

Macia use to have plenty of enormous jugs on the steep walls of his gym. As a reference: Patxi Usoibaga never climbed harder than 7b+ during his volume block (when he onsighted 8c/+ and won world cups).


Thanks, that's a very interesting piece of information! How do you know exactly?

I found both of Macia's  books from DESNIVEL a bit superficial when it comes to interesting details like this and always wondered how exactly he would implement his extreme volume programs.
no native speaker - so good luck in guessing what I really intended to express  :-)

jwi

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#11 Re: Training advice needed
April 23, 2017, 08:34:53 am
I read it in an interview a few years back and it stuck to my head. Sorry can't even remember if it was in spanish or something else.

Johnny Brown

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#12 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 11:08:45 am

My tuppence...
Fiirstly, you won't do much volume if you get boxed every go, that isn't efficient for getting fit.
Lots of easy  volume for generally hanging in there on easier ground.
Shorter, harder reps with intervals for power-stamina (as I learned it) eg 4x4s
Bouldering walls are good for building fitness.

What are 4x4s? Google isn't much use.

Nibile

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#13 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 11:12:47 am
I think it's four problems done four times each.
I leave a white and turbid wake; pale waters, paler cheeks, where'er I sail. The envious billows sidelong swell to whelm my track; let them; but first I pass.

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#14 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 11:18:43 am
Okay. All the same standard? Rest?

Do you not just get them completely wired?

nai

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#15 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 11:21:58 am
Yep, as per Barrows doc:

Quote from: Barrows
Climb 4 boulder problems in a row with no rest, then take a short rest, do 4 repetitions of this.
Rests should be as for circuits – short, probably in the 1-3minute range. This can also be done with more reps (e.g. 4 boulders done 8 times) or can be done as multiple blocks of 4x4 to create a high volume session.
Luck favours the Prepared

nai

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#16 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 11:26:11 am
Okay. All the same standard? Rest?

Do you not just get them completely wired?

If you're training for a specific route you can tailor it to match.  Rest equal to work is a good aim then switch up the difficulty.

The idea is to have them wired so you can fight through them and you only fail when totally pumped.
Luck favours the Prepared

SA Chris

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#17 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 11:51:12 am
https://www.trainingbeta.com/4x4s/

Although I think the rest could be shorter?
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seankenny

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#18 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 03:23:48 pm

If you only bouldered before aim to get in 600 moves per session first week. Up to maybe 1200-1600 moves at week 4. You can split this anyway you like.


600 moves? I always struggle to think in terms of moves done, but after waving my arms about in the air above my desk I'm figuring that as perhaps around a move a meter on easy ground. That's a lot of easy climbing! I always find anything over 300m in an aerocap session a bit much.

Clearly I'm not continentally fit... or have I got my measurements wrong?

csl

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#19 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 03:37:00 pm
Do you do your aerocapping on routes though? Might make a difference to what it takes out of you?

I tend to estimate 20 moves a minute -> then multiply from that. So a 600 move session is only 30 mins on the wall.

Duma

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#20 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 03:47:16 pm
a metre a move is way too much I reckon
I pull line and am content with a good feeling in the belly.

jwi

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#21 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 03:50:08 pm

If you only bouldered before aim to get in 600 moves per session first week. Up to maybe 1200-1600 moves at week 4. You can split this anyway you like.


600 moves? I always struggle to think in terms of moves done, but after waving my arms about in the air above my desk I'm figuring that as perhaps around a move a meter on easy ground. That's a lot of easy climbing! I always find anything over 300m in an aerocap session a bit much.

Clearly I'm not continentally fit... or have I got my measurements wrong?

600 moves is around 60cm*600 = 360 m of climbing. Or 600 * 4 = 60 * 40 = 40 min of continuous climbing, without stopping.

I didn't say it was easy. Or fun. And seriously, if you never did any high volume stuff before, get gloves. Otherwise you'll skin most of your hands.

csl

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#22 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 03:57:32 pm
And seriously, if you never did any high volume stuff before, get gloves. Otherwise you'll skin most of your hands.

This is the key beta :2thumbsup:

+ the Jam Crack podcast works well to defeat boredom.

seankenny

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#23 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 03:58:25 pm

If you only bouldered before aim to get in 600 moves per session first week. Up to maybe 1200-1600 moves at week 4. You can split this anyway you like.


600 moves? I always struggle to think in terms of moves done, but after waving my arms about in the air above my desk I'm figuring that as perhaps around a move a meter on easy ground. That's a lot of easy climbing! I always find anything over 300m in an aerocap session a bit much.

Clearly I'm not continentally fit... or have I got my measurements wrong?

600 moves is around 60cm*600 = 360 m of climbing. Or 600 * 4 = 60 * 40 = 40 min of continuous climbing, without stopping.

I didn't say it was easy. Or fun. And seriously, if you never did any high volume stuff before, get gloves. Otherwise you'll skin most of your hands.

360m/30-40 mins of continuous climbing, upping to double that in a month, sounds more reasonable! (But no, not fun.) Gloves are a good suggestion.

dave

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#24 Re: Training advice needed
April 25, 2017, 04:01:11 pm
This entire thread kinda validates my choice to bouldering.
I'm trying to run a high-class bureau-de-change