[shark]

It is still an important aspect of finger strength and the most effective way to develop finger strength. I think of it as both useful in its own right as a form of usable finger strength and the foundation work to develop other forms usable finger strength. But that is guesswork.

That sounds like gobblygook and you finish off by saying its guesswork.

Do you really think deadhanging has improved your ability to pull on smaller holds? You have done a lot in the past so must have some hard and fast results.

Its guesswork because I have also upped the amount of bouldering that I have done as well. My gut feeling is that deadhanging has enabled me to be at least pull on smaller holds to try harder problems whilst actually being at least able to try those harder problems has helped the other gobblydook forms of finger strength such as applying max force pulling off holds, applying contact force when hitting holds and using varied grip positions you encounter outside which aren't specifically developed when deadhanging

[gme]

Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).

This is what concerns me. You read everywhere that dead hanging is the best form of training for finger strength. Loads of people have done it and improved there deadhang ability but say little about if it transferred well to climbing. You nearly did but then added the word probably.

I have never been a true believer but thought maybe its just because i dabbled so i set myself the target of doing 4 weeks of it as my primary exercise to see what happens. 2 weeks in and my motivation is waning (probably due to it being really nice outside) and then i see that people on here who seem to do a fair bit of it in a very structured manner are way better at it than me but boulder much worse. And the person who seems the strongest boulders on a moonboard all the time.

Hence i was looking for some encouraging improvement stats from someone.

[petejh]

I wouldn't take too much away from comparing bouldering grades of people on here who fingerboard. Bouldering may not be a priority - it isn't for me.
I can one-arm hang the BM bottom middle slot with 100% body weight and do OK on max hangs - up to 5 x 28kg for 10secs on a 20mm edge, increasing every week for last 5 or so weeks. In theory I've got the finger strength to boulder font 8A but I've never pulled onto a font 8A in my life despite begin pretty confident that if I focused some time on doing one I would. I'm just not that interested in spending my limited time bouldering.

I don't think there's any doubt that hanging from a small wooden edge gets your fingers stronger - for that particular hold size, angle and grip type. As you say, it's less obvious how well that strength translates to actual results on rock. I think a useful analogy is when they talk about footballers having done loads of work on the training ground but not having that 'match sharpness' / match fitness'. Clearly it's anecdotal, but it's been talked about since the year dot by everyone in football, so there's some effect worth considering. Climbing's the same - you can get strong as fuck on edges, or fit as fuck on lattice boards, but without getting 'match sharpness' on rock it's not going to translate perfectly.

The point for most who train intelligently is they have limited time. If they didn't have limited time then real climbing is the best way to get good at real climbing. But it's inefficient time-wise.

[Murph]

I can one-arm hang the BM bottom middle slot with 100% body weight and do OK on max hangs - up to 5 x 28kg for 10secs on a 20mm edge,

Is this unusual do you reckon? If you can one arm 100% why can't you two arm c200%?

Scores of +30kg/-12kg seem much more equal depending on bodyweight. At 60kg they would mean 48kg one arm and 90kg two arm - so about equal per arm. At higher bw they are obvs less equal.

[gme]

The point for most who train intelligently is they have limited time. If they didn't have limited time then real climbing is the best way to get good at real climbing. But it's inefficient time-wise.

Is this not contrary to what you read now. I wanted to deadhang as people keep saying its the best way to get stronger fingers not because i dont have time to go on a board. I personally think you can get a really good session in an hour on a board, similar to hangs.

Your one hang strength is amazing compared to your two. How heavy are you? My weight maybe an issue as i am 82kg so pretty much one arm hanging 70kg on BM2K rung. But everything you read is about percentages of weight not kg which makes sense.

[abarro81]

I'm like you gav, I can't 1 arm hang the BM slot and endlessly wonder how people can hang it with stacks of weight added yet not be climbing about 9b. I've often pondered whether gains are better from bouldering or hanging and never reached much conclusion

[cha1n]

I've had similar thoughts in the past gme as I am very anti-fingerboard due to the dullness and most of the people I know who love deadhanging but aren't bouldering hard aren't great boulderers (this doesn't apply to you conor). No explanation for it except they probably don't boulder enough, they don't move like boulderers, I can tell straight away they are route climbers primarily. They're usually quite static and slow, they're movement is just not quite as fluid.

I also know very strong boulderers who also swear by fingerboarding and are bouldering hard, because they are good boulderers too. Maybe I'm imagining it all..

I've been fingerboarding for the last few months after always putting it off before and I can say that my fingers are feeling much stronger. I'm not necessarily climbing any harder but I feel much happier on crimps, whereas before my joints would feel achy and strained on the holds, they now feel solid and secure. For that feeling alone I'm going to continue as I've previously suffered badly with finger injuries.

[Doylo]

I always think that strength training, whether bouldering or fingerboarding or campusing, is way less fun that power endurance or stamina training too, simply because you don't get to do as much climbing and you don't get to beat yourself up as much. Guess that's partly why most of my goals are long things - I want an excuse to do loads of fitness training!

I thought it was because you are weak. 

[T_B]

All the tw@ts instagraming themselves deadhanging with a bunch of weight in the other hand seem to be 50 kilo midgets/kids/man-boys. Just sayin. I'd like to see someone 80kg holding 40kg in one hand. Maybe Polish Dave?!

[Doylo]

I'm like you gav, I can't 1 arm hang the BM slot and endlessly wonder how people can hang it with stacks of weight added yet not be climbing about 9b. I've often pondered whether gains are better from bouldering or hanging and never reached much conclusion

I think you need to do both.

[petejh]

Your one hang strength is amazing compared to your two. How heavy are you? My weight maybe an issue as i am 82kg so pretty much one arm hanging 70kg on BM2K rung. But everything you read is about percentages of weight not kg which makes sense.

I should have made it clearer - that isn't my max hang (maybe me using the words 'max hang' confused things..). I've being increasing my hangs by 2kg every week for the last 7 weeks or so and I'm currently at 28kg. I don't need to rush it because my fingers are strong enough anyway, so it's more just maintenance for me at the mo, and gradually getting toward a point where I plateau. I'm guessing that will happen at around 35-40kg..

Oh and I'm 68kg currently. Will be 63-65kg when redpointing.

[fried]

Shoulder tweaky

M - Yellow circuit rocher des potets, long time since I did a whole circuit, so much fun.

T/W - Nothing
Th - Indoors, big new set, lots of volume
F- rest
Sa/Su - Family stuff, managed one pull up without shoulder hurting too much...more easy circuiting for me.

[Muenchener]

STG: "Benchmark" moonboard 6B+
MTG (Spring 2017): Redpoint 7b
LTG (<= 5 years): Redpoint 8a before I hit 60.

M: 40 minutes stretching/mobility
T:   Boulderwelt with M jnr. Weak session, feeling tired
W: Thought about doing some kettlebell work for the shoulders, but in view of weak & tired in my last few training sessions, and having checked my diary and seen that I've only taken a couple of actual rest days in the last fortnight. Took another one.
T: Max hangs.
F: Moonboard. Nothing topped. Need to work on finishes; I have several projects on which I can consistently do al but the last move.
S:
S: Climbing! Yay. Less yay however: every bloody spring the same. Petrified two feet above the bolt; forgotten how to trust feet on anything that isn't a fluorescent blob. It'll come back though, just like every other year. Idyllic  location though: Bischofsbucht. The Danube flows through a bit of a gorge with impressive crags on both sides and the only motorised sound is the tourist boats. Most of the good looking routes are 40 metre endurance fests though, will have to get fit before I go back.

[the_dom]

Oh, and my week of climbing in the Peak!

Mon: Crap weather in the morning so went to the Works. Walked out into bright sun, so went to the Plantation and struggled my way up the Green Traverse and Zippy's Traverse. Good day.

Tues: Drove to Rivelin. Looked at Master Kush. Drove to Burbage. Should have done The Nose but was a bit nervous of the top out. After that, wandered down to Burbage North and Remergence and the One (hard!) and Two Sloper eliminates on said buttress, then came close on Terrace and Jason's Roof and finished the day by almost flashing Mermaid (so good). Great day.

Wed: Collected the wife from Sheffield station after spending all morning drinking coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage. Rest day after 3 days on.

Thurs: Almscliff. Great session. Flashed Demon Wall Roof and did Crusis (committing heel hook if you're alone!) in a few goes. Tried the Keel a lot but didn't seal the deal. Met some really friendly locals. Had a really good dinner at The York in Sheffield. Fantastic day out.

Fri: Rowtor. Nice little crag. Flashed Blood Falls and the spent some time failing on Domes and then was too tired to finish off Yoghurt Hypnotist after working it alone.

Sat: Dragged to wife around to help me finish up business - Rowtor for Yoghurt Hypnotist (so good) and Burbage West for the The Nose (also so good). Great end to the trip. Then a short session at The Works after dropping off my new mats and seeing how good the murple circuit looked. Psyched.

Sun: Woke up insanely early to walk up Mam Tor so the wife could photograph the sunrise. Froze my ass off. Drove to London. 8.5km run. I hate running.

[Muenchener]

coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage.

Better than Longlands/Outside?

[dave]

Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).

This is what concerns me. You read everywhere that dead hanging is the best form of training for finger strength. Loads of people have done it and improved there deadhang ability but say little about if it transferred well to climbing.

I deadhanged (deadhung?) mainly 2 finger max hangs last winter and it definitely was a huge factor in doing hitchikers RH SS last spring bank, in fact I mainly did it for that problem, plus I knew my 2-finger strength was poor and was hoping for some crossover into general openhanding. So yeah I think for me it transferred to climbing - I got up that problem and I was generally better openhanded. BUT I was doing it to specifically target a known weakness, AND addressing a grip type/angle I otherwise don't hit very hard with schoolroom board climbing. And I was doing it on nights I couldn't get out, never instead of climbing/board session.

I would general refute the notion that fingerboarding is the most effective way to train finger strength though. Give me two twins, one does 9 hours of fingerboarding a week, and the other does 9 hours of steep savage board climbing per week, and I'd wager the one doing the steep savage board climbing would be the one with the stronger fingers at the end, or at least the one who was most likely to be able to apply any finger strength gains into actual ascents.

[Doylo]

I view deadhanging as supplementary to board climbing. I would never sacrifice the board sessions for it .

[TobyD]

coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage.

Better than Longlands/Outside?

For coffee? Infinitely. If you want chips and a mug of hot tea, go to outside; for a flat white and biscotti, go to the deli!

[Sasquatch]

Gav - I'm in about the exact place you are.  I weigh about the same, and similar finger strength now after FB.  I did loads of bouldering, loads of climbing, loads of steep board work, and none of them got my fingers stronger like deadhanging.  I'm 100% convinced that for me they jumped me from a max of 7C+ to 8A+.  Now if I can drop my weight a touch, I may be able to look at 8B max...  I've been climbing 22 years, and spent so much time doing new and different stuff, that I have relatively good skills, but my fingers just had never gotten the strength.  That's me though, and not everyone.  sounds like you're in a similar spot though.

[the_dom]

coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage.

Better than Longlands/Outside?

For coffee? Infinitely. If you want chips and a mug of hot tea, go to outside; for a flat white and biscotti, go to the deli!

What he said!

[TobyD]

I view deadhanging as supplementary to board climbing. I would never sacrifice the board sessions for it .

Deadhanging has the significant advantage that it's essentially quite dull, so if you feel a niggle in fingers etc it's very likely that you'll bag it off immediately, unlike board climbing, where it's all too easy to get excited about ticking a problem and knacker something. I agree that board climbing will be far more effective for most people, but not if they snap something in the process.

[nik at work]

I deadhanged (deadhung?) mainly 2 finger max hangs last winter and it definitely was a huge factor in doing hitchikers RH SS last spring bank, in fact I mainly did it for that problem, plus I knew my 2-finger strength was poor and was hoping for some crossover into general openhanding. So yeah I think for me it transferred to climbing - I got up that problem and I was generally better openhanded. BUT I was doing it to specifically target a known weakness, AND addressing a grip type/angle I otherwise don't hit very hard with schoolroom board climbing. And I was doing it on nights I couldn't get out, never instead of climbing/board session.

I would general refute the notion that fingerboarding is the most effective way to train finger strength though. Give me two twins, one does 9 hours of fingerboarding a week, and the other does 9 hours of steep savage board climbing per week, and I'd wager the one doing the steep savage board climbing would be the one with the stronger fingers at the end, or at least the one who was most likely to be able to apply any finger strength gains into actual ascents.

I'd broadly agree with this. I have seen finger based feats improvement with fingerboarding but nontargeted translation to climbing appears less directly proportional in my experience. Essentially i have fingerboarded to address a specific target based on a climbing project. Or when i have no practical alternative option, the 'better than nowt' principle.

[36chambers]

First of two weeks in Fontainebleau. I usually get shut down, so my aims were simply to try lots of classics and hopefully do a first of the grade in the forest (7C). So far I've succeeded in trying lots of classics and have bagged a few 7Cs so yyfy.

Selected highlights include:

L'Aerodynamite 7B+. El Poussah 7A/+, matched sloper, heel accidentally popped off, campused to jug mid swing (best move and problem I've done in ages). Alta 7C. Noir Desir 7C, been high on my list of must do's for a long time. Did crux 3rd go and the whole thing on 7th. Surprise tick and surprised it felt so fine. La Baleine 7A.

Had a play on Tigre Et Dragon 8A, which is one of the most amazing problems I have ever seen. It also felt doable (but not this trip as I'd rather not spend days on one problem). 

[gme]

Gav - I'm in about the exact place you are.  I weigh about the same, and similar finger strength now after FB.  I did loads of bouldering, loads of climbing, loads of steep board work, and none of them got my fingers stronger like deadhanging.  I'm 100% convinced that for me they jumped me from a max of 7C+ to 8A+.  Now if I can drop my weight a touch, I may be able to look at 8B max...  I've been climbing 22 years, and spent so much time doing new and different stuff, that I have relatively good skills, but my fingers just had never gotten the strength.  That's me though, and not everyone.  sounds like you're in a similar spot though.

Thanks. This does sound pretty similar. My fingers have always been my weak link, especially crimping. My hangs have been very much focused on crimping to try to improve it and i am getting improvements in hangs. Due to time constraints ( and the fact that being nearly 50 means i need more rest) i didnt have the option of boards and hangs i had to pick one of them so having heard and read so much about hangs i thought i would try something different.

Your the 1st person who has come back who seems to really believe they made a big difference.
It was reading how good at hanging really average boulders were that started putting doubts in my head but maybe that is them not focusing on there weaknesses.

[gme]

Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).

This is what concerns me. You read everywhere that dead hanging is the best form of training for finger strength. Loads of people have done it and improved there deadhang ability but say little about if it transferred well to climbing.

I deadhanged (deadhung?) mainly 2 finger max hangs last winter and it definitely was a huge factor in doing hitchikers RH SS last spring bank, in fact I mainly did it for that problem, plus I knew my 2-finger strength was poor and was hoping for some crossover into general openhanding. So yeah I think for me it transferred to climbing - I got up that problem and I was generally better openhanded. BUT I was doing it to specifically target a known weakness, AND addressing a grip type/angle I otherwise don't hit very hard with schoolroom board climbing. And I was doing it on nights I couldn't get out, never instead of climbing/board session.

My issue is the opposite in that i cant crimp. i never was that good at it. My hangs are all crimped to try to specifically improve that grip and stop open handing everything. I can hang the shallow 2 finger pockets on a BM1k with as much weight as crimping the two edges with 4 fingers.

Glad to hear you felt it improved. You will find out if it has to me by my level of incompetence at the school after easter when i am bouldering again.