[dave]

I wouldn't be that surprised these days if there's a greater proportion of climbers who's on paper strength outstrips their achievements on rock. Recent fashion for very structured training probably impact on this as much as anything - people are getting stronger, but are we getting better? Increasing popularity of training plans where the metric for success (i.e. justification of having paid for the plan) is presumably something like X moves on a lattice board or Y seconds on a branded deadhang rung probably aren't helping application any.

Also is the fact that in some circles doing a proper warmup circuit is seemingly going out of fashion impacting upon application? There seems to be an increasing number of people who rock up to the crag to try their project and would warmup by deadhanging a fingerboard clipped to the first bolt or in a tree rather than do any easier problems, and hence are missing out on a whole range of real-rock application that is honed by doing a progressive warmup on problems - basically just general rock time (AND probably aren't getting a proper full body warmup). I know I personally have taken this too far in the past by doing everything I've ever done at the crag before trying anything new, but still. That fingerboard type of approach would have been unheard of even ten years ago.

[gme]

I have been campusing and deadhanging in arelitivly organised manner for two and a half weeks and can hang bottom bm1k edges with 30kg fed for 10secs. Need to take off 12 kg to hang the bottom edge on the 2k with one hand

Had a double take there. Presumably you did mean have 12kg of pulley weight assistance rather than take 12kg off the 30kg (ie 18kg) to hang one-handed.

Yes.

[csl]

I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.

So am i!

But i've just checked my log book and in the last 3 years i've had 4 half days out bouldering. I've tried something harder than 7A six times in my entire climbing career.

I live in London and don't get out regularly, so i like to try stuff that i can do in a quick session as its unlikely i'll get back to the same crag any time soon. Up till now its mainly been sport climbing, but i've sworn off routes for the rest of the year to put my energy into bouldering harder, so only time will tell if i can turn it into something usable on the rock. Doubt that'll be 8A like you suggest, but I'll see how it pans out.

[gme]

I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.

Amen to that. I'm out of shape at the minute but can pull some ok max hang numbers on the fingerboard, (+45kg at 62kg bw on 14mm) relative to my grade (three 7Bs in a lifetime) but:

1. I am truly a shit climber with close to no technique or skill or flexibility.
2. My deadhang form *was* pretty shit - shoulders unengaged and stuff so maybe my numbers don't count. Certainly, one arm strength was lacking because of this.

Personal experience, the FB-grit carry over is very poor compared to FB-lime.

You must be doing something really wrong. Lime 7Bs are generally about finger strength. Technique is pretty secondary.

[Murph]

You must be doing something really wrong.

You wouldn't be the first person to reckon that.

I only really climbed on lime for the first time last year and managed three 7Bs, only one of which took more than a session. Grit 7A could still feel quite heinous tho even then.

[shark]

 

I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.

Deadhang strength also doesn't measure other aspects of applied real climbing finger strength related to rate of force development, contact strength and varied hold types. These things are typically gained by actually climbing. Its not solely a case of shit technique and low aspirations.

[Nibile]

Power Club

Mon -  quick BM test, frontal one arm L-sit on incut rung + 10 kg, brilliant. Found out that using a dumbbell is easier than using a weightvest. A matter of balance and mobility surely. 30/30 and 1/1 x 5, completed both. Chuffed. Bag 1/1 x 6, brutal. Elbow sore but not tragic.
Tue - rest.
Wed - quick boxing bag session. Very tired.
Thu - climbing class. Elbow sore.
Fri - deadlift 68 kg x 10, 12, 15, 20. Explosive pull ups 4 x 2. Boxing bag, combinations and Tabata. Brilliant and brutal session.
Sat - clean and press 5 x 5 41 kg. Snatch 5 x 4 41 kg (from hang, full snatch). Boxing bag. Brilliant.
Sun - rest.

[Nibile]

S: Lovely day, first dry and non-freezing morning out on the bike, the Isle is calling to you nibs...

Lovely. Absolutely lovely. Can't wait.

[gme]

I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.

Deadhang strength also doesn't measure other aspects of applied real climbing finger strength related to rate of force development, contact strength and varied hold types. These things are typically gained by actually climbing. Its not solely a case of shit technique and low aspirations.

You have already got to technical for me. Does deadhanging improve all of the other things or just not measure them. If it does not improve them all and only makes you better at hanging off wood what advantage is there to bouldering.

I am just trying to get rid of doubts i have about whether i should carry on doing it as its so boring. I am obviously totally shit at it compared to most on here so my rational is that if i get much better at it my climbing will improve.

[Three Nine]

I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.

I have been campusing and deadhanging in arelitivly organised manner for two and a half weeks and can hang bottom bm1k edges with 30kg fed for 10secs. Need to take off 12 kg to hang the bottom edge on the 2k with one hand and can't lock off one armed on a bar. Yet can pretty consistently do 7A+ 7B in a session on moonboard and outside.

Lots on here seem to be doing much harder things on beastmakers but targeting 7A/B problems. Surely if you can one arm hang the bottom rung of bm2k without assistance you can boulder 8A ish.

I am questioning this as I am still not a total believer in hangs and struggle to stay focused on them long enough to see if they work. Have managed to do 6 sessions now and seeing hang improvements. Just hoping it transfers to the rock.

Fortunately for you, the better you are at climbing, the more impact your deadhanging is likely to have on your climbing - if you keep it up.

As an aside, if I could do 7B in a session i'd personally be aiming a hell of a lot harder than 7B in a session outdoors!

[shark]

I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.

Deadhang strength also doesn't measure other aspects of applied real climbing finger strength related to rate of force development, contact strength and varied hold types. These things are typically gained by actually climbing. Its not solely a case of shit technique and low aspirations.

You have already got to technical for me. Does deadhanging improve all of the other things or just not measure them. If it does not improve them all and only makes you better at hanging off wood what advantage is there to bouldering.

I am just trying to get rid of doubts i have about whether i should carry on doing it as its so boring. I am obviously totally shit at it compared to most on here so my rational is that if i get much better at it my climbing will improve.

It is still an important aspect of finger strength and the most effective way to develop finger strength. I think of it as both useful in its own right as a form of usable finger strength and the foundation work to develop other forms usable finger strength. But that is guesswork.

[gme]

Fortunately for you, the better you are at climbing, the more impact your deadhanging is likely to have on your climbing - if you keep it up.

As an aside, if I could do 7B in a session i'd personally be aiming a hell of a lot harder than 7B in a session outdoors!
[/quote]

I am.

Only issue is getting regular time to focus on something as family stuff gets in the way so its easier to just get fast ticks done. Slowly running out locally though and once the kids footy and rugby seasons finish i will have more time, hence the training now.

[gme]

It is still an important aspect of finger strength and the most effective way to develop finger strength. I think of it as both useful in its own right as a form of usable finger strength and the foundation work to develop other forms usable finger strength. But that is guesswork.
[/quote]

That sounds like gobblygook and you finish off by saying its guesswork.

Do you really think deadhanging has improved your ability to pull on smaller holds? You have done a lot in the past so must have some hard and fast results.

[T_B]

Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).

[nai]

Yes that is the standard according to Tom Randall. He says the correlation is 100-110% of BW for 8A.

Unless you're shit  etc

This was something I was musing about a while back.  Folk, me included, tend to assume they need more strength, flexibility, endurance, whatever, all the time but how many actually come to the conclusion that they have all the attributes but what if they're just not very good at rock climbing.

[Murph]

I am just trying to get rid of doubts i have about whether i should carry on doing it as its so boring.

I am often surprised by how people find fingerboarding boring. It is genuinely one of my most favourite things and in my house it basically just means watching telly while hanging off a bit of wood for a few seconds every three minutes.

In terms of investment of time, family disruption and effort it is ridonculously simple and efficient.

Other aspects of training, including what stretches to do and the family man's endless crux of being able to actually go climbing, are much more complicated and difficult IME.

[Murph]

Folk, me included, tend to assume they need more strength, flexibility, endurance, whatever, all the time but how many actually come to the conclusion that they have all the attributes but what if they're just not very good at rock climbing.

That is almost the very definition of being shit. You could be literally the strongest fittest and most flexible person in the world but there are some problems if you can't work out how it goes you have no chance.

Thank god for Vimeo beta videos!

[psborland]

M: BBC Hard Bouldering, no problems with shoulders.
   Pull ups - 10 body weight; 5 +25Kg; 4 +27.5k; 4 +30k; 3 +30k

T: hit circuit at home (25 situp/20 knee-nose/20 pressup/ 1:15s Kettlebell swing) 3.5 sets

W: BBC bouldering- orange circuit v3-5.

Th: none

F: Beautiful Day - Roaches still can't link Pink wall eliminate together, next time.

Sa: Another beautiful day . Dinbren- warm up then tried 'do walls have ears' thinking it would be a quick tick,, it wasn't .        No surprise PE is lacking somewhat went home feeling very tired.

[gme]

Its utterly boring. 10 secs effort every 3-5 mins??

I do a 10 sec hang on the 3 mins which is about as low a rest period as i have seen recommended for max hangs. With warm up and a set of 10 hangs it takes 45 mins. I could do a lot of boulder problems on the board in 45 mins.

I am not very good at sitting about so find the 3 mins rest pretty hard to stick to.

[Duma]

Goals:
Good winter bouldering season,
8A (Hunters Roof? Full Power?)and 8b by June
In shape for SA in summer.

Body Audit: Middle RH finger bit tender but nothing major
Sleep: OK.
69kg.

M: TCA, OK session, long problems with 90s rests as that's what Ro was doing. Also, since she was doing assisted hangs, had a go: Lattice smaller edge: 10kg assistance L arm, 13.75kg assistance R arm (~7hrs, 2dk)
T: TCA, A-non Comp, managed to flash all but one, slab took 4 goes. Pleased to fight through the 45 for the flash, prob would have dropped off normally. Then Moonboard, felt strong and really chuffed to finish the 7C (Sensei) I'd done the moves on last week. 1-4-7 leading left, nowhere near leading right. (~7hrs, 1dk)
W: Nothing (~6hrs, 3dk)
T: Bloc, fairly unproductive session but tried a few hard purples and whites, managed some moves. (~7hrs, 1dk)
F: Nothing (~7.5hrs, 3dk)
S: Roaches, underestimated warmth but fun day, Started at the Clouds, repeated Trust and Thrust, grovelled up Ugly Brother, had great time on Persistence and Icarus upstart, less so on Pinnacle of Human Achievement... Then over to Lower Tier, finally put Inertia Reel to bed then ripped chunk out of my finger going wrong handed on Mushin. (~6.5hrs, 2dk)
S: Gardoms, pleased to do Wishbone in a couple of tries, arse dragging lowball but fun moves. Failed due to scrittle (again) on Bens Bulge, repeated Marks Roof while mates were trying it, Failed dismally again on Full power, but repeated SotG a couple of times while working it (~7hrs, 2dk)

Proper lush weekend, despite the lack of significant ticks. Great to get some vit D.

[nai]

Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers,
The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun

I benchmarked myself on a few deadhangs at the start of Feb and, in terms of power & strength training, have been just bouldering twice a week since. Used the Moonboard, my own board and been outside a bit recently.  Either this week or early next week I'll retest and see whether I've made any gains, be very disappointed if I haven't.

[nai]

I am not very good at sitting about so find the 3 mins rest pretty hard to stick to.

But surely if you were limit bouldering you'd be sat around for a similar amount of time between attempts?

[gme]

Probably but the climbing bit lasts longer and is a lot more fun.

[Murph]

Its utterly boring. 10 secs effort every 3-5 minutes??

Aye, that is the training protocol. The rest time (and the training time) involves watching whatever netflix series/film is on rotation that week. It's really not very boring to me.

[abarro81]

It's basically as boring/interesting as whatever's on the TV is in that case, which is guaranteed to be way more boring than going climbing... I'm not saying it's not fun, just way less fun than climbing.
I always think that strength training, whether bouldering or fingerboarding or campusing, is way less fun that power endurance or stamina training too, simply because you don't get to do as much climbing and you don't get to beat yourself up as much. Guess that's partly why most of my goals are long things - I want an excuse to do loads of fitness training!