[Duma]

IIRC cha1n on here had done 7B before he could hang the BM2k edges

[andy_e]

Anyway, what you can do on a wooden edge is not important.

Don't let Nibs hear you say that!

[SFrancis]

Really interested in this topic, as I had been training whats described as "chisel" on the fingerboard and had got to hanging around bw+40% for 10s on the bmk 1 20mm edges. Mostly did repeaters rather than max hangs, before I got the difference explained to me about 1/2 crimp and chisel.

Tried 1/2 crimp and was barely able to hold the position with my bw for 10s, without my index finger dropping to drag. Could mange maybe 2 1/2 crimp hangs when trying to do 7 sets of 7 sec hangs and 3 sec rest, before i would drop to chisel.

I've spent the last 10 months mainly working on 1/2 crimp max hang and have go up to bw+35%. Can easily smash out a set of repeaters now, and have really noticed a difference when pulling on small holds, in crimp /1/2 crimp, especially powerful moves off small holds. I'm still stronger in "chisel", and seem to use chisel for big campusing moves on med/lg rungs, and 1/2 crimp for smaller moves on he smaller rungs. 

In summary i subscribe to the idea that training 1/2 crimp seems to train more hand positions, whilst chisel seemed to just get me stonger at chisel / more open handed. It's really had a noticiable difference on bouldering / sport cruxs.

[jwi]

Last three-four months I've done all my hangboarding using the open crimp and I've seen a small improvement on small holds for the first time in years. YMMV

Interesting, you've got better gains on small holds from open crimp training compared to half crimp training?

Argh... typo: Should read

Last three-four months I've done all my hangboarding using the half crimp and I've seen a small improvement on small holds for the first time in years. YMMV

[Murph]

Anyway, what you can do on a wooden edge is not important.

Don't let Nibs hear you say that!

Was SO going to say that too! 

Luke - yeah man that must put you at the "weaker" end of the spectrum. That's not really a bad thing though cos for a given grade, weaker must surely mean more talented. Probably shows my biases but I reckon strength must be loads more easy to train than talent...

[Nibile]

Cheers guys!

[tomtom]

I think it's because the proper half crimp - fingers at 90 degrees, depending on relative length of pinky - has the greatest crossover effect on both full crimp and dragging.
It stresses the pulleys but without creating acute angles and mechanical locks (thumb over) as the full crimp, and it also stresses the tendons like in a dragging prehension.
Moreover, the half crimp is the less favourable angle, so it's the most beneficial to train.

Its probably been done to death, but to me there are many shades of grey between a half crimp and a chisel.. due to the geometry of my hand and length of fingers my half crimp looks halfway between. But I know its a half crimp rather than a chisel, as my fingers 'lock over' of that makes any sense...

[Luke Owens]

Luke - yeah man that must put you at the "weaker" end of the spectrum. That's not really a bad thing though cos for a given grade, weaker must surely mean more talented. Probably shows my biases but I reckon strength must be loads more easy to train than talent...

I wouldn't really describe myself as talented, I'm just obsessed and have a good memory for climbing movement/beta.

One strange thing I've noticed is that I climbed 7A+ 3 years ago and my grades have barely budged since then. I've never really found myself getting that much stronger from "just going climbing" which I have done plenty of over the years. I did a lot of board climbing last year which I reckon helped me break my grade plateau last year but finger strength didn't improve much, if at all.

At the moment I'm doing a lot of fingerboarding so I'm hoping for some good gains seems I've never really stuck at doing it...

[Murph]

Really interested in this topic
....
It's really had a noticiable difference on bouldering / sport cruxs.

Great first post SF (specially compared to some of the others we've been having lately!)

I've got similar background to you I reckon. I took up max hangs last year and was fairly quickly hanging +50-60% bw from 14mm but with a chisel type grip. In contrast to Luke's experience, at these numbers my highest ever grade was 7B. Make your own minds up about how much talent I must have....

Recently got some coaching and basically told that's not how to do it - it has to be 90* 1/2 crimp on first three with pinkie doing what it wants. This is much harder. (Also some shoulder stability things which might just be me).

Question for you then SF, what sort of boulder grades/improvement are you seeing with this newly honed 1/2 crimp strength?

[Will Hunt]

One strange thing I've noticed is that I climbed 7A+ 3 years ago and my grades have barely budged since then. I've never really found myself getting that much stronger from "just going climbing" which I have done plenty of over the years. I did a lot of board climbing last year which I reckon helped me break my grade plateau last year but finger strength didn't improve much, if at all.

Welcome to the great, expansive plains of inadequacy. Run in whichever direction you please, there is no end to them.

[Luke Owens]

To add to this, word on the street is the average strength of a 7c sport climber/7B boulder is being able to hang 85-90% of body weight on a 20mm edge one armed. Which to me would be taking off 7- 11kg. I reckon I'd need way more assistance than that. Something to work towards...

[tomtom]

Pah...

I project 7B-7C (with the odd success) and would generally 'expect' to do a 7A or 7A+ in a session...

My deadhang weight thingy on the 20mm BM edges (two armed) is +20kg... Getting to +20KG has certainly helped, but its more often than not knack or problem specific strength/skin/core/footshift/bodyposition that does the trick..

My other tuppence worth (while I'm sounding like a grumpy old man) is that if you have a 20mm edge that you are chiseling with your pinky dragging - if you rotate that edge by 10 degrees all fingers fit on fine and its a different grip again.. How many times to you hit a flat 20mm edge that is horizontal...? Ever?

Of course the way around this is to do max hangs on chisel and drag etc..

no-one has yet mentioned sloper strength yet either.. I'm amazed that no-one has any max hang numbers on that (I can do the 35's with +20kg).. possibly of more use for the scrittle..

[nai]

would generally 'expect' to do a 7A or 7A+ in a session season...

sorted

no-one has yet mentioned sloper strength yet either.. I'm amazed that no-one has any max hang numbers on that (I can do the 35's with +20kg).. possibly of more use for the scrittle..

They're the worst holds on that board for me, something always goes clunk and they hurt my wrists. Skin and conditions dependent and tweaky too so altogether to be avoided. Probably in a majority of one though...

[36chambers]

To add to this, word on the street is the average strength of a 7c sport climber/7B boulder is being able to hang 85-90% of body weight on a 20mm edge one armed. Which to me would be taking off 7- 11kg. I reckon I'd need way more assistance than that. Something to work towards...

is this for 5 seconds?

[tomtom]

would generally 'expect' to do a 7A or 7A+ in a session season...

sorted

Pah. Got my first new 7A+ of the year on Sunday... :p

[SFrancis]

Question for you then SF, what sort of boulder grades/improvement are you seeing with this newly honed 1/2 crimp strength?

Cheers, it peaked my interest as the person I spoke to about grip positions was stronger on 1/2 crimp and gave me the impression it was not normal that i was way stronger on chisel compared to 1/2 crimp. This thread seems to suggest I wasn't alone.

In terms of improvement grades I mostly do routes, for sport I went from consistent o/s of 6b+/c s to consistently 7a (limestone/slate) with best of 7b. I haven't had the chance to RP anything harder than 7b+ as i mostly prefer doing multiple o/s (5-6 routes a session), if it doesnt go 2nd go i normally move on.  Big improvements in the amount i can manage in a day, and can mess up a crux and have a bit of reserve to power through it. This year the plan is to put the gains towards RPing a bit more.

Bouldering i've broken in to the 7s, and am now consistently doing 7As in a session (Font/Peak) and managed a few 6C flashes, without being too wiped out to do lots of 6A-6C bouldering.

Obviously i've done more than just fb all year but that was basically it in terms of benchmarkable training. The mileage i've done has probably helped with the grades, but i have definietly noticed big difference with crimpy bouldering, and ease of pulling off small holds in cruxes.

[Murph]

is this for 5 seconds?

Yeah. Lattice assessment hangs are 5 seconds. Not sure they have to be 1/2 crimp though.

My notes from Toms TrainingBeta podcast:
7B+ = 95%
8A/+ = 100-110%

[nai]

would generally 'expect' to do a 7A or 7A+ in a session season...

sorted

Pah. Got my first new 7A+ of the year on Sunday... :p

I know, I do pay attention in Power Club, not like those other boys messing around at the back.

[36chambers]

is this for 5 seconds?

Yeah. Lattice assessment hangs are 5 seconds. Not sure they have to be 1/2 crimp though.

My notes from Toms TrainingBeta podcast:
7B+ = 95%
8A/+ = 100-110%

Looks like my right hand is in the 8A/+ range and my left is ~7B+. That coincides quite nicely with my actual climbing ability.

[Murph]

Pah...
How many times to you hit a flat 20mm edge that is horizontal...? Ever?
.

Prettysure you've just described the finish "jug" on BSD...

[tomtom]

Pah...
How many times to you hit a flat 20mm edge that is horizontal...? Ever?
.

Prettysure you've just described the finish "jug" on BSD...

Not sure I've ever jumped sideways and up to a hold on my BM before

[Murph]

Not sure I've ever jumped sideways and up to a hold on my BM before

Give it hell TT. Make your next BM session count. Purposeful practice. All the beans.
   

[Murph]

7B+ = 95%
8A/+ = 100-110%

Looks like my right hand is in the 8A/+ range and my left is ~7B+. That coincides quite nicely with my actual climbing ability.

Sweet! FWIW, Tom also says that short arses have to be proportionately stronger for a given grade. Not sure if 5'7 counts as short but it's definitely not tall.