[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, I had to google. 25 years is too long.

It was this:




And, from what I can gather, came to 3600kcal. If you ate every thing, every sugar packet, every powdered milk, every soup etc. Rarely was there enough time. Usually, we were in four man teams and they were individual packs; so often different main meals. Everything got chucked in a single pan to make "pot mess". Just hold your nose and swallow.

And yes, you got a can opener, even though the only tin was the meat paste and that had a pull tab. I still have some of those can openers.


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[Oldmanmatt]

On kit amounts.
We did 30 months training, in 3 month classes.
There were pass/fail "selections" for advancement at each phase.
(There were also academics too).

At middle of 1 class (basic), Scrasden fort (near Torpoint/Plymouth). 20lb standard kit. 6ml double time squad march. From Fisguard to Fort. 30ml, full kit navigation ex. 16hr time limit (+the usual assault course type stuff).

End 1class: Cardinham (Bodmin moor). 30lb standard kit. It's an old clay mine. Mother furker of an assault course,  4 man team, carrying a railway sleeper, 2 miles long, over clay tips, through a large marsh, swim across the flooded quarry, 100mtr long 1x1 tunnel etc etc. Legendary in Artificer circles. Still makes me shiver. 30 mile nav ex over Bodmin moor. Various weapon stuff.

End 4class: Fort Bouldner, Isle of Wight.
30lb. 40ml in 24 hrs, nav ex. Seriously fun assault course including the longest sump I've ever done (longer than the Jungle at Lympstone). Plus, assault course again as a Gun Run (with a Victorian era artillery piece).

9 class: Brecon Beacons.(Tal-y-bont)
30lb standard kit. 10 days. Nav ex's, E&E, Caving, Mountaineering assement, night ex's and all kinds of daft shit (cross this chasm using two shoelaces, half a cold fish and chips and a piece of gum type stuff). Culminating in (our version of) the Fan dance. 24km, 685 mtr climb (twice), 7hrs.

The other "selections" were a Sea Training phase with the Dartmouth training Squadron  and a two week seamanship/sailing phase.


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[Murph]

Cheers OMM

Couldn't help but notice this:

...4 man team, carrying a railway sleeper, 2 miles long...

That is a seriously long railway sleeper! I don't envy you guys.

[dave]

What always stands out with those ratpacks is to get the full calorie content you have to make and drink about 20 litres of tea every day. Do they still put bromide in the biscuits brown to make you infertile?

Anyway, that is a very long railway sleeper.

[Oldmanmatt]

Cheers OMM

Couldn't help but notice this:

...4 man team, carrying a railway sleeper, 2 miles long...

That is a seriously long railway sleeper! I don't envy you guys.

Yep. We were 'ard I tell ya, 'ard. That Clay tip was so high, we needed oxygen (carried in an old sheep's bladder) and all done in Hurricane force winds, during the worst blizzard on record. In our underpants, blindfold.


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[tomtom]

Remember chatting to a former BAS person, who during fieldwork 20 years ago their daily ration was c.10k calories. Lots of Butter. I mean LOTS of butter. Slabs of butter covered in sugar between two slices of bread... stomping about for 12-18 hour days in - whatever temps...

[Murph]

to get the full calorie content you have to make and drink about 20 litres of tea every day.

Not many calories in tea Dave. Eat the sugar tho. Not sure about the non dairy whitener...



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[Murph]

their daily ration was c.10k calories.

OMM says he lost 2.5 stone in 18 days up above. If he was having 3k a day and all that weight loss was fat (which of course it wouldn't have been but stay with me) that means his daily energy spend was getting on for 10k too. (3K x 18 days rations) + (8K x 16kgs lost) = c180,000

Impressive numbers to someone who lives in an office.

[tomtom]

Swimmers, Rowers burn 8-10k per day... read what Phelps ate a day whilst training!

Claimed (probably overblown) to be 12000 per day...

Men’s Health said he used to eat this: “Three fried-egg sandwiches loaded with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions, and mayonnaise; two cups of coffee; one five-egg omelet; one bowl of grits; three slices of French toast topped with powdered sugar; and three chocolate-chip pancakes.” And that was just for breakfast.

[Oldmanmatt]

I've yet to find anything other than NATO standards for rat packs of that era. However, it seem the 3600kcal was the temperate pack, not arctic. The new cold climate packs, introduced mid 2000's have 5100kcal. I'd guess they must have been on a par back then, so not as low as I remember.
I don't recall ever considering this, even in Exped planning. It was X days=X Packs + Y spare and assume MOD know what they're doing.
Sorry, can't resist this was the terrain.
First, 23km back to the coast; where we were dropped by Ridged Raider, by the Royals.




Heavy packs, hard terrain, we had to carry everything we'd need for (originally) 25 days (ran away early). Above the head of the fella in the foreground is the Icefall that we had to climb. Bergshrund and crevasse hell and no handy sherpas to fix ladders or ropes.







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[turnipturned]

This has probably been covered numerous times, but how many calories do you actually burn bouldering for say 2 hrs (with no scientific background or reasoning whatsoever, I think not very much).

It always strikes me the walk ins burn more calories than bouldering.

[fried]

I'd guess more indoors than out. When I used to count calories I'd go for about 350cals per session (2h) based on it being about 30 mins of climbing.

[Murph]

The new cold climate packs, introduced mid 2000's have 5100kcal. I'd guess they must have been on a par back then, so not as low as I remember.

That 1993 study says that during winter rations were over twice as big as the summer.

Summer rations were 5.4kj (which is 1,300 kcal or so). Rather them than me.




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[Oldmanmatt]

This has probably been covered numerous times, but how many calories do you actually burn bouldering for say 2 hrs (with no scientific background or reasoning whatsoever, I think not very much).

It always strikes me the walk ins burn more calories than bouldering.

10 minutes for a 76kg male:



You must subtract your BMR from the values shown, for that period. Or calc your BMR and multiply by the indicated factor.


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[tomtom]

This has probably been covered numerous times, but how many calories do you actually burn bouldering for say 2 hrs (with no scientific background or reasoning whatsoever, I think not very much).

It always strikes me the walk ins burn more calories than bouldering.

Interesting Dan..

I've been experimenting with an apple watch (new toy) the last week or two - which has a heart beat thingy, so supposedly gives a better 'calorie burn' during 'workouts'... Not wanting to trash the shiny new toy actually bouldering, so far I've done:

1. Beastmaker session - (3x6 7sec hangs x 3). Stopping it during the 10-15 min break between sets - leaving it running during the 1-2 min break between each group of 6 hangs. This burnt c.220 cal in a 20(ish) min work out it was recording (was nearer 50 if you include the 10-15 min breaks). Max heart beat 180 (must have been gurning at one point!)
2. Warming up at Logport wall (c.10-12 V1-3 problems). c.60 cal burnt in 10 min... Max heart beat 100...

To put this in context, a 40-50min c.3km pram push around the once leafy streets of Didsbury burns 250-350 depending how fast I push TTjnr..

[SA Chris]

From reading about the early Antarctic exploration (most notably The Worst Journey in the World by Cherry Apsley Garrard - an amazing book) they seemed to surviv mostly on Pemmican https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican

Which sounds utterly rank.

[Oldmanmatt]

You're wrong to stop on the rests. You continue to have elevated HR and calorie burn for sometime after stopping the activity. Also, HR is unreliable for an essentially anaerobic activity. You could get tech and calc the energy required to raise your mass x mtrs and guesstimate your total ascent?


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[dave]

For bouldering a some/most of the calories burnt must come from the glycogen you expend, some shit like that? (Don't really know what I'm on about here, totally blagging it).

[dave]

From reading about the early Antarctic exploration (most notably The Worst Journey in the World by Cherry Apsley Garrard - an amazing book) they seemed to surviv mostly on Pemmican https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican

Which sounds utterly rank.

Sounds like the fat balls you hang out for birds to nibble on.

[Scouse D]

Sounds like the fat balls you hang out for birds to nibble on.

Dave... Come on. Really?

[SA Chris]

From reading about the early Antarctic exploration (most notably The Worst Journey in the World by Cherry Apsley Garrard - an amazing book) they seemed to surviv mostly on Pemmican https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican

Which sounds utterly rank.

Sounds like the fat balls you hang out for birds to nibble on.

Open goal.

Maybe her husband was a former artcic explorer.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/a2017083-He-has-eaten-a-fat-ball

[dave]

Sounds like the fat balls you hang out for birds to nibble on.

Dave... Come on. Really?

You're right, fat balls don't have meat.

[Oldmanmatt]

From reading about the early Antarctic exploration (most notably The Worst Journey in the World by Cherry Apsley Garrard - an amazing book) they seemed to surviv mostly on Pemmican https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican

Which sounds utterly rank.

Sounds like the fat balls you hang out for birds to nibble on.

Open goal.

Maybe her husband was a former artcic explorer.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/a2017083-He-has-eaten-a-fat-ball

Funny as, but; how the hell did you find that?

And.

Jeeze guys, I thought I'd digressed; this might actually be a UKB tangential thinking record!


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[SA Chris]

Funny as, but; how the hell did you find that?

Partner is a regular mumsnetter and showed it to me a while back. Possibly a future classic that will always be in circulation like the singletrackworld picolax thread.

[Oldmanmatt]

Incidentally, by my calcs: for a 75 kg person.
 (assuming 740 N required to move 1 mtr, or 740 J/mtr).

Kcal/mtr climbed = ~ 0.185kcal.

Or,

0.002467kcal/kg body weight.

I think.


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