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Steep Board Training Structure (Read 19071 times)

BicepsMou

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#50 Re: Steep Board Training Structure
December 13, 2016, 09:46:12 am
I've heard people say quite a bit that you should finish your sessions strong and not beasted, whats the SCIENCE behind this?

You can't train strength when you're tired.

Cheers, so is it OK to go do a load of endurance based stuff after strength? Anyone know if this dilutes the effectiveness of the strength training?

Actually there’s been research indicating that both training goals compromise each other when being trained to closely together, even if its AeroCap and strength.

http://www.8weeksout.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/molecular-responses-to-strength-and-endurance-training-are-they-incompatible-2009.pdf
 
Basically what this says is (summary quotes copied from here http://www.8weeksout.com/2016/06/01/3-things-to-stop-for-better-conditioning/ ):
 
<<…when trained independently, resistance training causes a signaling cascade which alters gene expression resulting in a higher rate of protein synthesis relative to protein degradation. The net result is muscular hypertrophy.

Endurance training leads to its own signaling cascade which promotes an aerobic adaptation: the creation of new mitochondria, or mitochondrial biogenesis.

When both endurance and resistance training are performed in high volumes together, neither of them lead to their respective adaptations as effectively and results are compromised. In other words, concurrent training causes sub-optimal activation of both signaling pathways for everyone but beginners (…) >>

The conclusion seems to be that for optimal effectiveness, there has to be a clearly prioritized development goal within one training block or period (e.g. finger strength), while the other physical aspects (e.g. finger endurance) should simply be maintained with a much lower training stimulus over this period of time.
 
So to come back to the original question, it seems to be OK to train concurrent stuff as strength and endurance in one session, but you should have a clearly prioritized goal where most of the training stimulus / load is focused upon, whereas the other aspect is simply being treated with a lower maintenance stimulus / load.

So basically, what Murph and others have stated above, simply said in a bit more complicated way  :lol:


« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 10:06:09 am by BicepsMou »

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#51 Re: Steep Board Training Structure
December 13, 2016, 09:51:42 am
Plus, -a week or two before going to font you drop the calories down to 1,000 a day and power:weight skyrockets.
Sorry Murph, but I think you're completely wrong.
What could have worked for Jerry, isn't necessarily going to work for others.
A sudden cut in calories, like to about half as you suggest, is going to eat you alive, literally. You'll drop a lot of weight, the vast majority of which will be muscle. Your body fat percentage will raise despite the decreased weight, and I seriously doubt that you'll retain much power. Not to mention that you'll feel miserable, hungry and sad.
Plus, you risk seriously fucking up your metabolism, so that after that trip you'll gain weight, this time in terms of pure body fat, by simply looking at food.

HTH

Murph

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#52 Re: Steep Board Training Structure
December 13, 2016, 10:50:21 am
Your body fat percentage will raise despite the decreased weight, and I seriously doubt that you'll retain much power. Not to mention that you'll feel miserable, hungry and sad.
Plus, you risk seriously fucking up your metabolism, so that after that trip you'll gain weight, this time in terms of pure body fat, by simply looking at food.

HTH

Cheers nibs

Everyone's mileage varies but a sudden drop in calories (while keeping protein up) produced, for me, fantastic results this year. I didn't quite go down to 1,000 but wasn't much above 1,500. I was in fantastic shape relatively speaking and got loads done. I would recommend trying it it to anyone for whom weight is an issue.

Challenge to maintain send weight after when the immediate need is gone but can report that I have eat, rather than just look, at the tasty foods to gain.

There's a dead interesting study out there on us ranger training and how ripped they got on a ridiculous energy deficit....most lost primarily fat mass and spared muscle, but some went catabolic quite quickly and really struggled. Can look up link if you are interested.

Off topic?



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#53 Re: Steep Board Training Structure
December 13, 2016, 11:14:30 am
Cheers Murph.
It could be interesting to read that study about US Rangers, even though I know for sure that in that environment there's a big use of chemicals.
With regards to dropping calories, there's a huge difference between 1.000 and 1.500, as you know.
It also depends on bodyweight, metabolism, supplements taken, mental energy and the likes. So, I don't say that it doesn't work - it's been around in the climbing world since forever, so... - but in my opinion it should be used as the last resort to tick something extremely special, and not to gain a quick tick that could be obtained otherwise.

I have a personal point of view about specific dieting for performance, and I reckon I'm biased in my judgement, but again, I think that most people could simply do with better eating, better training, better lifestyle.
In my case, for instance, I've experimented the opposite. I'm 2,5 kg heavier than two years ago (same bodyfat %) and never felt so strong; climbed at my highest level on the board and had good ticks on rock too. I'm athletically more performant in general.
Anyway...

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#54 Re: Steep Board Training Structure
December 13, 2016, 11:37:14 am
There's a dead interesting study out there on us ranger training and how ripped they got on a ridiculous energy deficit....most lost primarily fat mass and spared muscle, but some went catabolic quite quickly and really struggled. Can look up link if you are interested.

Off topic?

Yes please.


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