[ducko]

Sounds to me like you'd benefit from some basic training (fingerboarding,core workout) as well as your board sessions.
When I do sessions on the board I have a few hard projects all the time which I'll try the moves on but for me I will look at the holds and try come up with short hard problems that I know ill struggle on, if I can do the individual moves im happy if I link it just about that's good but I like to struggle on the moves. I also set short problems I think I should be able to do then I'll attempt it four times then do another it's handy to train with someone doing this then you don't always set your style.
There's no science behind my board climbing but it does seem to work.
In the words of ty landman and malc smith big move small foot and hand holds!

[turnipturned]

Done a fair amount of board climbing in my time.

I think tailoring you board (what board you use) to what you want to do. If you want to climb hard in the UK, then I would say 45 or less is a good angle. This allows you to climb on small handholds using small or bad (or slopey) feet.

If you want to climb hard aboard, i.e Swiss, US, Rocklands etc. I would use a steeper board, 50-65, bigger hand holds, where you are inclined to do bigger moves with your feet coming off.

In terms of structure;

When starting out on a new board, or changing it up; I try and get 10 problems that I can do, that are about 80% of your level, mixture of holds, styles etc. The aim is to be able to do them all within three sessions, to eventually being about to flash them all on your first go a few sessions later. That gives you a good base and something to default back too. I then try and get around 5 problems that are around 90-95% (maybe tailor them to similar things you want to do on rock). Then over the next couple of months I try and do them all in a session. I then have some ultra hard problems, that try when feeling good.

With this structure, its good for when you are not feeling good or cant try hard. In those cases, I then go back to my original 10 and add weight, up to 5kg. I think this is great for trying hard, as you know you can do the problems fairly easily, but the added weight just makes you work that little bit harder.

Now and then, I also try and climb a little bit on different boards

I think Dave is right, trying really hard for 1.30hrs is the key, trying to finish on a high. I was talking to a friend as well, who also goes with the approach of concentrating one problem (maybe one of the 5 90-95%) and just trying to get it done in the session, which I guess is good training for climbing on rock.

Stretching during rests is maybe a good idea, time efficient at least

Finally, if you are climbing on a 45, i think you are mainly working fingers and finger power, therefore, a small rings/trx/core session afterwards is acheivable.

Hope that helps, not that I am anything to aspire too or have much 'training' knowledge.

[dave]

There's no high-steps-off-the-kickboard moves on Too Fluffy innit?

That's cos he's doing it wrong!

See 02:45 on here

To be fair this makes it no harder but has the benefit of making it flow so the next move not a high step. I was infact told by someone (Bennet?) that this was an unwritten rule/convention on this prob.

[mctrials23]

Are there any walls that have a moonboard in the london area. Can't seem to find anywhere and I would like to have a go on one.

[andy_e]

People can say what they want about Simpson but those one-armers at the end always get me psyched to try hard.

[Three Nine]

Glad to hear other people think the sub 7A stuff on the Moonboard is all over the shop grade wise. Ben Moons problems especially seem ridiculous at the grade. I could barely do any of the moves on Wuthering Heights, Far From the Madding Crowds, Hocus Pocus and Tess... All sub 7A

I've had 5+ sessions on dynosaur 6B+ and not done it, over same period as doing 8b route and stacks of 8a+ routes outside. Yet to climb 7A by a long shot. Only managed two 6Cs.

[Paul B]

Is there not a consensus grade system on the app?

[Duma]

if you log a problem you can vote on the grade - seemed a bit much faff tbh though, not that I spend any time on it.

[JonB]

Mint thread, some great stuff here. Can't wait to start training somewhere with a good board again.

[Nibile]

Lots of good advice here.
My 2 cents.
I don't think it's really necessary to stress over a plan or structure, just climbing according to feelings is enough, with a good setting and a good mindset.
People often complain that board climbing doesn't make their fingers strong: that's because they have a bad setting.
You can hang every hold if the footholds are good enough.
So, it's crucial to have tiny footholds and to force oneself not to cut loose.
This could be useless in terms of climbing a certain problem, but it has a big effect on power. The more muscles are involved, the bigger the power output.
Then, instead of thinking about big/small moves on big/small holds, think in terms of single moves at the limit, regardless of the type. Put your body in contrieved positions, make holds harder to hang with cross throughs, bounces, hard catches, deadpoints, etc. Alternate steady but tiring start sequences with short, brutal cruxes and long hard finishes.
And underclings. Work on underclings.
Basically, come climbing chez moi.

[Luke Owens]

Cheers guys, loads of good knowledge!

Couple of questions, any advice on when to fit in a small amount of max hangs on the fingerboard? I like to have rest days from actually pulling on holds so is it worthwhile before/after sessions?

I've heard people say quite a bit that you should finish your sessions strong and not beasted, whats the SCIENCE behind this?

Cheers

[rjtrials]

I have had great success with 3-5 sets of hangs after 15-20 minutes of warming up.  I do a single grip, 4 finger half crimp, and vary the time/weight/edge size in accordance with my long term training goals.

Then continue to warmup doing increasingly harder problems for 15-20 min and then get into limit bouldering.

[highrepute]

I've heard people say quite a bit that you should finish your sessions strong and not beasted, whats the SCIENCE behind this?

You can't train strength when you're tired.

[Luke Owens]

I've heard people say quite a bit that you should finish your sessions strong and not beasted, whats the SCIENCE behind this?

You can't train strength when you're tired.

Cheers, so is it OK to go do a load of endurance based stuff after strength? Anyone know if this dilutes the effectiveness of the strength training?

[36chambers]

I've heard people say quite a bit that you should finish your sessions strong and not beasted, whats the SCIENCE behind this?

You can't train strength when you're tired.

Furthermore, at a basic level, if you completely trash yourself it will take considerably longer for your body to recover. So if you want to train hard two days later you may be so fatigued that the next session may do more damage than good.

[highrepute]

I've heard people say quite a bit that you should finish your sessions strong and not beasted, whats the SCIENCE behind this?

You can't train strength when you're tired.

Cheers, so is it OK to go do a load of endurance based stuff after strength? Anyone know if this dilutes the effectiveness of the strength training?

Yes it's OK. The common guidance is to start with strength if training multiple systems within a single session.

It may compromise your strength training if you use up to much energy and your body fails to recover from the strength training. Recovery being important, hence the fascination with protein.

If you only do a little then it may improve your strength training efficiency. Aerocap as a warm down for example.

In the middle of these is probably the optimum you're looking for. A pure boulderer wouldn't have a problem they'd just boulder all the time. But you clearly want the extra strength for routes. How much fitness and how effective it will be depends on yourself. I've done an hour of strength followed by an hour of fitness in the past. Hayden will 5 hours of strength followed by 5 hours of fitness before heading out for a night session at the tor, this clearly works well for him.

One thing I've found is that fitness leaves me feeling more tired which makes a strength session the next day harder, so I only tend to mix if I've got a rest day coming up.

[Luke Owens]

Cheers, makes a lot of sense.

I'm struggling to figure out how best to fit all the different facets in at the moment, without overdoing it and resting enough.

Tues, Thurs and Sat or Sun is all I do at the moment, could do more but adding a session on Wednesday for example would effect Thursday and adding a session Friday would effect the weekend, etc. etc. Should maybe experiment with 2 on 1 off...

[Doylo]

I wouldn't do max hangs and a board sesh on the same day. Doesn't feel nice!

[SA Chris]

Doesn't feel nice!

Best scientific explanation ever.

[Three Nine]

Cheers, makes a lot of sense.

I'm struggling to figure out how best to fit all the different facets in at the moment, without overdoing it and resting enough.

Tues, Thurs and Sat or Sun is all I do at the moment, could do more but adding a session on Wednesday for example would effect Thursday and adding a session Friday would effect the weekend, etc. etc. Should maybe experiment with 2 on 1 off...

All the strength then endurance on the same day programming stuff has been covered here in detail before, but its worth remembering that if you're going to do eg. boulder then aeropow in the same day (if life dictates), rest as long as you can in between. The ideal scenario if you have to do both in one day would be strength in morning, aeropow in evening. If only got the evening, can you have an hour between them?

[Doylo]

Doesn't feel nice!

Best scientific explanation ever.

I got a C in Science.

[SA Chris]

That's no good, there are supposed to be 2.

[Luke Owens]

All the strength then endurance on the same day programming stuff has been covered here in detail before, but its worth remembering that if you're going to do eg. boulder then aeropow in the same day (if life dictates), rest as long as you can in between. The ideal scenario if you have to do both in one day would be strength in morning, aeropow in evening. If only got the evening, can you have an hour between them?

I train when the kids are in bed and the wall is 5 mins down the road so I can go any evening for a couple of hours. I've just got into a habit of doing Tues, Thurs, Sat or Sun.

I get 30mins for lunch in work and at one point did do max hangs during this time, but it was a bit difficult to warm up enough to not feel like I was going to injure myself.

[Murph]

Luke - there's no sense trying too much at once. As others have said, you can't train strength and power when you are feeling weak and tired. Specially if you're not sleeping well. And endurance / fitness - that's the quickest stuff to train.

Depending on your goals and timescales, if you have 3-4 sessions a week and your project/season date is 8+ weeks off then you could prioritise strength & power (fb and limit bouldering and actual strength if necessary) With a session a week of fitness/endurance stuff. Then as you get closer to having to perform could switch the focus, drop the FB down to a minimum/maintenance, and up the mileage.

Thinking behind this is that strength lasts for ages but fitness comes and goes. Enough trainers and rockstars have said this for it to almost certainly be true. Jerry says something on the cafe craft video I think about having hard days and easy days depending on how you feel. And getting strength and power up so everything feels easy. Plus, -a week or two before going to font you drop the calories down to 1,000 a day and power:weight skyrockets.

Maybe slightly off topic, but this steep board climbing business is only ever going to be part of a bigger training plan. Please say if any of this sounds barking mad! 

[ducko]

In my personal experience which is limited and unscientific I think like most that fingers need to be the first thing you target, warm up well so you can perform half crimps on your desired edge fine without feeling tweaky or under warmed up.
Do your weighted hangs or one arm hangs ( if you haven't seen Chris Webb parsons finger training video search for it )
You could then finish off the session with core or pull ups or various other things that will give you more strength.
Maybe you should get a friend to critique your climbing to help put you on the best path with your training.
For me a day off fingers training is always wise after having a heavy finger workout but my pulleys are made of glass..