[Oldmanmatt]

Presidential, what a shambles, Trump seems to amplify all that's bad within America.

Just when you think things can't get any worse, he opens his mouth or begins to tweet.

He says that bit about the "alt-left charging" at 13:43. Watching the video, I don't think he does says "us". I think he says "charging at 'em". The audio goes a bit weird at that point, but if you look at his lips he certainly seems to be saying "'em" and not "us". Two distinctively different mouth movements. What do others think?

The Washington Journal does not contain a video clip of him saying anything. The WJ cites Politico as the source of the transcript, but the Politico article that they link to does not contain a transcript, nor does it contain a video clip.


Soooo. Fake news?

Entirely possible.
I was reading in bed in the early hours, so actually replaying the vid would have resulted in Mrs OMM removing my nut sack with extreme malice...

On t' Moors at the mo, so will listen again later.
I didn't notice an "us" in the live broadcast, but was prepared to accept he might have said it, based on that report.
At the time I was slightly stunned at the whole thing, having read so much from both ends of the spectrum over the previous 24 hrs. He contradicted almost every other account and to me most tellingly, the Militia version.



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[slackline]

[Will Hunt]

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this transcript quoted Trump as saying, "Okay, what about the alt-left that came charging at us – excuse me." In a review of the audio, we could not definitively discern Trump's exact words at that moment in the news conference. The transcript has been updated to now read: "Okay, what about the alt-left that came charging at [indiscernible] – excuse me."

So yes, fake news. To me it isn't indiscernible. I'm certain that he didn't say "us" and I would say it's pretty certain that he said "'em" (it seems this is what other people think he said too).

At the time of me writing this, the Washington Journal has not taken down their "Freudian Slip" story.

Does nobody else think this is an enormous problem? A supposedly reputable outlet picked up a fabricated story from a third party and ran it without checking the actual source because it fit with their own narrative. It's just as bad to see that sort of behaviour coming from the Trump opposition media as it is from the Trump supporting media.

How are we supposed to know what is true and what is not true any more when the press won't adhere to high professional standards? How many other times has Trump been misquoted and I've just believed it readily because I find it easy to believe and I want to believe it? How many thousands out there will not pick up on the fact that he didn't say "us"?

In Hilary Mantel's Reith lectures, she talked about there being no such thing as history. There were simply events, and then a narrative created after the fact to describe those events. The media moves so fast that this is unlikely to be picked apart or redacted in any significant way, so now we have a situation where an untruth has become truth in the eyes of many. I remember looking at Twitter after Charlottesville and seeing the driver of the car being named as a Trump opponent, complete with screenshots from licence plate directory websites and the kids Facebook profile. Now I hear that a very different Hitler-sympathising suspect has been identified. Those initial reports were convincing enough. I can imagine many people, if asked in a year's time, will say "wasn't Charlottesville an anti-fascist attack?"

I used to think that Twitter, Facebook and electronic media would be good for democracy. I'm starting to think that they are the beginning of the end of it.

[IanP]

At the time of me writing this, the Washington Journal has not taken down their "Freudian Slip" story.

Does nobody else think this is an enormous problem? A supposedly reputable outlet picked up a fabricated story from a third party and ran it without checking the actual source because it fit with their own narrative. It's just as bad to see that sort of behaviour coming from the Trump opposition media as it is from the Trump supporting media.

Assuming you mean this site https://washingtonjournal.com/, then it looks pretty clearly like a left wing version of many right wing fake/spam news sites with loads of headlines against Trump and nothing else.  A quick google doesn't find anything about the Washington Journal as news site, just links to a TV show that doesn't seem to have any links to the above website.

So I could be wrong but to me this doesn't look like a main stream media 'fake news' issue, much more a fake media 'fake news' issue.  Lesson is don't necessarily believe stuff you read on random websites and always have an appropriately skeptical mindset (and preferably corroborate against other mainstream sites). 

[tomtom]

Isn't history a narrative or interpretation based around 'facts' and evidence (facts is in quotes as in the science meaning - there's bugger all in life that is a fact).

Anyway - the main story from the presser is Trump giving moral equivalence to a load of Nazi's and a load of counter supporters.

I really can't see how this sits with the Jewish community in the US...  Trump has made great claims about his support for Israel etc... this would seem somewhat contradictory now..??

As someone above I think stated - this is all about his ego. He hated having to correct what he first said (the both sides statement) and so went back to double down on his original words.

[petejh]

Yeah that was ME, listen to ME 

[mrjonathanr]

Wow. Kudos to the young reporter, that's some composure.

Cantwell's closing comments bear quoting:

These people ('the blacks') want violence and the Right is just meeting market demand.

There'll be more of this.

[andy popp]

Somehow - don't ask - we found ourselves in a dive bar in a bombed out area of Detroit last Wednesday evening; that is, the day after a sitting US president refused to disavow Nazis. We had a fascinating conversation with an older African American. He summed it up for me in one pithy sentence: "The man might as well put on a motherfucking hood."

[tomtom]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/22/thousands-of-trump-shaped-ecstasy-tablets-seized-in-germany

[moose]

A joke from the Edinburgh festival:

“Trump’s nothing like Hitler. There’s no way he could write a book.” Frankie Boyle

[andy popp]

The company Trump likes to keep: https://static.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is

[GraemeA]

The company Trump likes to keep: https://static.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is

Scary. Very scary.

[Oldmanmatt]

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[mrjonathanr]

Joe Arpaio's criminal behaviour represents Trump's ethos at county level. Being pardoned whilst sanctions in train for flouting the constitution, wow.

After Bannon and Gorka, this is a strong statement to reassure his base. He'll need that base next year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_elections,_2018

All these attacks on Flake, McCain and other Republicans suggest to me he's after moderate seats to swing towards him as well as (obviously) Democrat seats, so growing his base will be key to that strategy.

That could give him some real power in Congress.

[andy popp]

After Bannon and Gorka, this is a strong statement to reassure his base. He'll need that base next year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_elections,_2018

All these attacks on Flake, McCain and other Republicans suggest to me he's after moderate seats to swing towards him as well as (obviously) Democrat seats, so growing his base will be key to that strategy.

That could give him some real power in Congress.

The GOP already hold majorities in both houses, and thus, at least in theory, real power.

The Arpaio pardon is definitely some red meat thrown to the base - as will be the threatened end to DACA, the program that gives a path to citizen for illegal immigrants brought to the country as children. However, I think he is going after Republicans such as Flake, McCain, Corker and others because a) he has few other options at this point given the lack of legislative wins and b) because he can't control his impulse to attach anyone who criticises him. Whether that is a winning strategy is another question - I can see it perhaps firming up a base that is starting to show some signs of softening. But is it a strategy for growing the core base? These antics are as likely to repulse moderates as they are to attract them. In some ways the bigger threat is if the Republican party succeeds in effectively separating themselves in voters minds from their own president. Tillerson did this over the weekend, saying that the president speaks for itself when it comes to values. Similarly Defence Secretary Mattis told US troops they add to "hold the line" as the country went through this aberrant period - in other words they have to provide a model of cohesion and civility. Both pretty extraordinary statements from men both appointed by Trump. If the GOP succeed in effectively disowning the President - and he is making it easier for them for through his constant attacks - then it could give them a path to surviving the mid-terms (and thus probably quashing any hopes of impeachment).

[mrjonathanr]

The GOP already hold majorities in both houses, and thus, at least in theory, real power.

.... But is it a strategy for growing the core base? These antics are as likely to repulse moderates as they are to attract them.

I'm not suggesting it's the GOP which needs amenable seats, but Trump himself. How many of these sitting congressmen and women are as far right as Trump? I suspect he sees moderates as much a hindrance as a help given his racism and contempt for the judiciary and constitution.

Just how far does he want to go? He has no respect for the democratic structures and supports neo-Nazis in public. The norms were abandoned many moons ago.
But as to the GOP dissociating itself from his more extreme antics whilst using his presidency to further their agenda, yes, I get that.

[jfdm]

The company Trump likes to keep: https://static.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is

Scary. Very scary.

The pardon coincided with the evening of the hurricane. As Trump states he was surprised at the "ratings." So it's seems as though he still thinks he's on the Apprentice rather than POTUS.
Earlier last week there was talk on the thread about media bias, both pro/anti trump. It's is always better to listen to what's going on directly, through unedited clips of trumps press conferences - YouTube - primary source,  rather than a third persons view - media outlet - secondary source. There's less chance of spin. For what it's worth though he is a complete nut job. In many ways the U.K. Gov mirrors lots of Trumps ideas, nationalism, demonisation of immigrants etc. That's the worry for me.

[andy popp]

The GOP already hold majorities in both houses, and thus, at least in theory, real power.

.... But is it a strategy for growing the core base? These antics are as likely to repulse moderates as they are to attract them.

I'm not suggesting it's the GOP which needs amenable seats, but Trump himself. How many of these sitting congressmen and women are as far right as Trump? I suspect he sees moderates as much a hindrance as a help given his racism and contempt for the judiciary and constitution.

Just how far does he want to go? He has no respect for the democratic structures and supports neo-Nazis in public. The norms were abandoned many moons ago.
But as to the GOP dissociating itself from his more extreme antics whilst using his presidency to further their agenda, yes, I get that.

OK, got it, I thought you were talking about moderate voters. He undoubtedly sees moderate Republicans as (personal) enemies. The Senate is a (relatively) sober and august body but the House has many more crazies. But how many moderates are there and can he engineer their defeat and replacement by loyalists, without ceding a seat to Democrat in the process? Its complex and depends on a patchwork of local circumstances. But moderate Republicans get elected for a reason. Our own representative, Charlie Dent, is a very prominent moderate House Republican and led much of the opposition to the attempts to repeal "Obamacare." He is a sane and well-liked representative and he gets elected with cross-party support. He can't get elected without Democratic support and knows it. There aren't enough Trump base voters in the District to compensate for the Democrats he would lose by aligning more closely with Trump. I suspect that is the case for many moderate Republican members of the House. Appeal to the base isn't a winning strategy in my view, at least not in many places.

How far does he want to go? There are no limits on that. I'm thinking of a more extreme disassociation. His Presidency is becoming a severe hindrance to their agenda, not a vehicle for realising it.

[alx]

Anyone know what the odds are Congress saving the DACA?

Are they really going to deport 800,000 children!?

[andy popp]

Anyone know what the odds are Congress saving the DACA?

Are they really going to deport 800,000 children!?

On the second, it is far from clear what the real intentions and likely outcomes are (its worth pointing most are not children now, they were brought to the US as children, not that this diminishes the cruelty). The programme will be allowed to begin to expire in 6 months, if no solution is found. Those whose permits to work, which last two years, are close to expiring will for now be allowed to renew. It is claimed that they will not be a priority for deportation and will not be actively sought out but rather deported if, for example, the come into contact with immigration/law enforcement/gain a conviction (as a group they are 100% crime free, its a condition of maintaining "Dreamer" status). But this seems to leave a lot of ambiguity around what their real status is and I am sure many are suffering a great deal of anxiety and uncertainty now. Besides the threat of deportation, expiration or revocation of Dreamer status could well mean being thrown out of university or out of a job - 91% are in employment. To me, its clear they should be given a path to citizenship

As to the second, who knows? It seems many in Congress do not want to end DACA and polls suggest it has very wide support in the population. But this Congress has proved itself so spectacularly inept, cynical and fractious I wouldn't bet on them passing anything, let alone something as complex as immigration reform. Of course, handing it off to Congress is another piece of shameless buck passing and blame shifting from Trump. He even got Sessions to make the announcement for him. He wanted to throw more red meat to the white supremacist base but didn't have the courage to take it on himself.

[Oldmanmatt]

Not entirely on topic, but...
Well, read it, you'll see:

http://admin.duluthnewstribune.com/opinion/4322927-keillor-when-red-state-gets-blues#.WbCYAuN_MIl.facebook

[andy popp]

This is hands down the best thing I've read on Trump's victory. If you're going to read it, please read it all:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/?utm_source=atltw

[mrjonathanr]

I think after Charlottevillesville, the unmentionable became undeniable.

[andy popp]

There are very many in absolute denial.

[mrjonathanr]

People may not like to look in the mirror (who does, really?) but his campaign and presidency are full of it, stoking grievance, promoting entitlement, monstering the immigrant, praising violence at his rallies, to the police, against women, defending racists and neo-nazis.

That's not hiding; that's just in plain sight.

Like the writer says, not everyone who voted Trump is a white supremacist, but they are happy to see one in the White House.