UKBouldering.com

Life and climbing in North Yorkshire – what’s it like? (Read 14304 times)

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29221
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
know loads of people who were close to stuff there then it got soaked

Bummer. I guess at least tides are predictable.

duncan

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2951
  • Karma: +332/-2
If I was in my 20s again I'd sack off climbing at the UK sport crags and head out to Spain or wherever at every opportunity where your biggest worry is whether the route's gonna be in the sun or not. There seem to be plenty of young climbers in Sheff who train then head off to world-class crags in Europe.

Wouldn't it then be better to move to London since the training facilities are as good and availability of flights is better?

Will Hunt

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
Can't quite believe what I'm reading here.

"The sport climbing in England is of a sufficiently poor quality and reliability that it would be worth moving abroad, or else using up all your annual leave and disposable income, to get away from it."

 :???:

It's not that bad for goodness' sake.

T_B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3078
  • Karma: +149/-5
If I was in my 20s again I'd sack off climbing at the UK sport crags and head out to Spain or wherever at every opportunity where your biggest worry is whether the route's gonna be in the sun or not. There seem to be plenty of young climbers in Sheff who train then head off to world-class crags in Europe.

Wouldn't it then be better to move to London since the training facilities are as good and availability of flights is better?

Possibly, though I suggested this recently to someone who lives in Chelsea and she said getting to Gatwick was a nightmare and flying from Heathrow very expensive. Manchester, or at least an 1 hour on the train from Manchester Airport would probably tick some boxes ;)

tim palmer

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 735
  • Karma: +34/-0
I think Malham and Kilnsey are incredible crags (the best in the country by a mile (that I have been to)), I also don't think they are that unreliable in terms of conditions, ok north buttress and bits of main overhang can be a pain in the arse, but Kilnsey is often climbable into october and you can climb at malham all year round sometimes. 
I think the argument that there aren't that many good routes below 8a, is fair enough but is more a reflection on the climber saying it rather than the crags themselves.

duncan

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2951
  • Karma: +332/-2
Possibly, though I suggested this recently to someone who lives in Chelsea and she said getting to Gatwick was a nightmare and flying from Heathrow very expensive. Manchester, or at least an 1 hour on the train from Manchester Airport would probably tick some boxes ;)

Chelsea is a damn stupid place to live by almost any measure  ;)

andyd

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1173
  • Karma: +52/-2
    • https://vimeo.com/user14959179
Don't move to North Yorkshire just for M&K.
Sheffield is not N Yorkshire. The two have far more differences than similarities.

KeithScarlett

Offline
  • *
  • newbie
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +1/-0
I'm sorry for the lack of input (I've been away)  :sorry: Thanks again for all the posts - it seems that some of the later ones maybe offer a different perspective from the earlier ones i.e. the North Yorkshire crags have their share of problems.

Having read the replies and thought more about the basis for a move, here are some comments:

- When I say 'Spanish' crags I am talking about more than the style (I appreciate I am unlikely to have the same experience climbing at Kilnsey as I do in Chulilla for example); this is about removing obstacles to performance which for me translates as climbing somewhere where I ‘know’ I will be able to climb i.e. it is dependable rather than a gamble (which is how I now perceive The Diamond and to a lesser extent LPT).

As I write I’m aware of a wider point which is around potentially being able to more readily take the rough with the smooth where important life factors outside climbing have been addressed. So while North Yorkshire climbing might have its limitations too, it may be that the wider context would be a very different one such that disappointing climbing days ‘weigh’ less heavily.

- If I moved it would very much be on the basis that I would be redpointing rather than onsighting. I love the process and would be psyched to get my teeth into something excellent where there was a more realistic prospect of getting onto it more often.

- More and longer trips to Spain are options I have thought about and in the future these may be more viable however for work reasons (and work aspirations) they are currently less possible  :( Pete’s suggestion of a second house in Spain would be excellent though financial limitations and the need to make headway with other priorities first means this is also something for the long-term.

- With regard to location this is still up in the air and would require ‘time on the ground’ to investigate options. It is however likely to be north rather than south, maybe ‘anywhere’ north-east of the A65? As for options outside the area (in Lancashire for example) my heart is set on North Yorkshire because of what I perceive the natural environment to be there.

- Something that has come up for me as I’ve reflected on this is the number of climbable days annually in the respective areas. I think it would be relatively easy to come up with an estimate: how many months are Kilnsey and Malham likely to be climbable annually and how many days during these months are likely to climbable i.e. conditions and / or weather are reasonable? Comparing the total with north Wales might be worthwhile in terms of further narrowing down whether my perception / hope (Kilnsey and Malham are the closest to what I’m after in the UK) matches reality.

- Nobody has really touched on some of the other aspects I mentioned: walking, running, biking or being able to be in nature / away. If anybody has any particular views on / experience of this I’d be interested.

Time for a trip to North Yorkshire...  :punk:

Will Hunt

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
What sort of grade are you redpointing, Keith? Are we talking high 7s? Low 8s? High 8s?

Luke Owens

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1311
  • Karma: +66/-0
    • My Blog
Have climbed much at Malham and Kilnsey Keith?

I couldn't imagine climbing on them consistently and that's it. The thing is with North Wales as you probably know if you ignore the Spanish style aspect you mentioned, is you can climb all the time; something will always be dry (even if it's only the Cave in winter). But in spring/summer/autumn the variety of rock types/angles/location and styles in my head far outweighs sieging something at Malham or Kilnsey, which aren't generally climbable all year and have their own problems.

Johnny Brown

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 11437
  • Karma: +690/-22
To me it sounds like you are thinking of moving to the Yorkshire dales or nearby. North Yorkshire to me means the North York Moors over towards the north-eastern dales.

I lived in Leeds for a couple of years. I moved back to Sheffield at the first opportunity despite leaving a brilliant scene and mates behind (they mostly followed me soon enough though!). Part of the reason we were there was to get away from the cliche Sheffield thing (not so much me mind, more a compromise between work and love life).

My main observation on climbing in the dales was it was really spread out - from Leeds getting anywhere other than Caley, Almscliff and Ilkley was a fucking trek. Even they were an issue at rush hour. I figured to make the most of the area you'd need to live in Skipton. I didn't fancy that to be honest, you'd probably just end up doing more driving to get to work.

From Sheffield there is a wealth of climbing within a twenty minute drive, 40 mins will get you most places, an hour everywhere in the Peak plus outliers like the Churnet, Lancs etc.

Running and biking is probably much the same between N Wales, the Peak and Yorkshire Dales. Peak a bit busier, but probably more choice of quieter roads whereas in the Dales you'll be forced onto A roads more.

Getting into nature - depends what you mean. A big frustration for me with Yorkshire was the difficulty of getting to some proper open space. The nearest moorland was Ilkley, too far for an evening walk. The Dales is generally less access friendly than the Peak, where most of the popular moors for recreation are now managed for recreation and conservation. In Yorkshire they're almost all grouse moors, still being shot. There are no mountains in the Peak though, and only Ingleborough come close in the dales. If you enjoyed the mountains in Wales you're likely to miss them.

For nature I prefer the Peak too - most of the limestone climbing is in nature reserves, with the dales retaining a wild feel. I never really found any decent nature reserves in the Dales, I generally ended up going east to the ings and magnesian lime areas. I'm sure they're there (Southerscales looks nice) but again a fucking trek from Leeds.

I spend a few weeks in N Wales every year and wish I could do a lot more. I love the mountains, the coast, the variety. I really hope I can work out a way to live over there at some point.

andyd

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1173
  • Karma: +52/-2
    • https://vimeo.com/user14959179
This is good advice from Johnny.

To answer the gaps. There is good walking around North Leeds. The meanwood valley trail is good for urban wilderness, both walking and mtb. There are trail centres maintained in stainburn above otley and better in esholt for enduro and DH. Most of the places in the guidebooks are surrounded by excellent walks and views. Footpaths seem to be well maintained yet suitably quiet. The wharf river offers excellent walks and wild swimming opportunities. There are kingfishers and otters plus the usual river life. And red kites.
I live in guiseley which is on the outskirts of Leeds on the other side of the chevin (the hill with Caley on it;6min drive). It's one 11 min train journey to Leeds, no stops. I can do all of the things on your list from my house and I'm really really happy about this. And there is a morrisons.

Doylo

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6694
  • Karma: +442/-7
you just want to be close to the Cave JB  :thumbsup:

Paul B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 9626
  • Karma: +264/-4
- With regard to location this is still up in the air and would require ‘time on the ground’ to investigate options. It is however likely to be north rather than south, maybe ‘anywhere’ north-east of the A65? As for options outside the area (in Lancashire for example) my heart is set on North Yorkshire because of what I perceive the natural environment to be there.

For us it was limited by work. Our current employer (for both) work in a certain sector of a certain industry and have a rather large market share. As we were outgrowing our (wrong side of) Sheffield flat (commuting to Leeds daily) and the company were willing to fund a relocation with 'good opportunities for progression' for my other half, it was a no-brainer. Double days on the Yorkshire lime at the weekend would mean you'd easily have two weeks of driving every day between Sheffield and Leeds plus a bit more!

We now live <10 miles from the office, which is 15 mins from Longridge and at home we're only 35 minutes from Malham or Kilnsey, the latter of which I've had a love affair with since turning a corner approaching from the North and seeing half a hillside missing and in its place the North buttress. You can see that advantage early season and late with people dropping off from the evening session crowd every week. With that said, if there was the same offer with North Wales it'd have been a harder decision.

I knew nothing of Lancs when we moved (see the thread if you're in any doubt) but I think we've landed on our feet. We live in a small village near Clitheroe, basically at the foot of Pendle hill and unlike in Yorkshire house prices are VERY reasonable. Given you're into biking and walking etc. I seriously would take a further look at the Ribble valley, with the Forest of Bowland nearby and being in shooting distance of the lakes it's a VERY good venue. One thing we haven't got quite right is walls/training; I think weekend psych will make you get out, likewise necessity makes you go to work. However, when I get home after a day that didn't go to plan, driving 1 hour each way to the Depot Manc is a bitter pill to swallow (nearby boards accepted). I'm not sure it's important to you but worth bearing in mind?

As Johnny points out, the grit is more spread out although I'm yet to try out many of the Lancs offerings (Wilton etc.).

Quote
- Something that has come up for me as I’ve reflected on this is the number of climbable days annually in the respective areas. I think it would be relatively easy to come up with an estimate: how many months are Kilnsey and Malham likely to be climbable annually and how many days during these months are likely to climbable i.e. conditions and / or weather are reasonable? Comparing the total with north Wales might be worthwhile in terms of further narrowing down whether my perception / hope (Kilnsey and Malham are the closest to what I’m after in the UK) matches reality.

I can't remember when the Big K truly dried out this year, April perhaps? Accepting the North Buttress seeps rather easily I climbed at Kilnsey until I went to RRG mid October last year and it looks as if it'll be similar this year (although obviously your choices get cut down at the start and end of the season). Malham dries out earlier and wets out later. Likewise you can be strategic and eek out a few more weeks if you're smart. August seems to be a crap month regardless (warm and wet?). I went inside for the first time since Apr last Friday and really I probably should've gone to Longridge.

Quote
- Nobody has really touched on some of the other aspects I mentioned: walking, running, biking or being able to be in nature / away. If anybody has any particular views on / experience of this I’d be interested.

See the Forest of Bowland, access to the Lakes etc. (not that I do these things).

Fultonius

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4315
  • Karma: +138/-3
  • Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
    • Photos
Can't quite believe what I'm reading here.

"The sport climbing in England is of a sufficiently poor quality and reliability that it would be worth moving abroad, or else using up all your annual leave and disposable income, to get away from it."

 :???:

It's not that bad for goodness' sake.

And also, in this day and age recommending spending as much time as possible FLYING TO SPAIN for CLIMBING doesn't seem particularly environmentally responsible...

turnipturned

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 715
  • Karma: +107/-1
- Nobody has really touched on some of the other aspects I mentioned: walking, running, biking or being able to be in nature / away. If anybody has any particular views on / experience of this I’d be interested.
Time for a trip to North Yorkshire...  :punk:

I live in a village just inside the National Park, 5 mins from Kilnsey and 10mins to Malham. I mostly climb but I do a fair bit of fell running.

How do you define 'nature'? As JB says, the wilds spaces are generally managed moorland, which isn't really 'natural' however if its getting away in a exposed environment, seeing nobody, with a good scenery, then North Yorkshire will defo give you that. I run a lot on the Barden fells, must have done over 150 miles on the moors this year and honestly since January I have only seen one other person.

I dont do a lot of MTB but its pretty good, lots of Bridleways for a good day out.

Bouldering and trad climbing is great on the moors, Crookrise is probably my favourite crag in the UK. A lot of the other bouldering is great, but they aren't really a 'nip up after work crag', however lots of those crags around Leeds. Again the majority of the moorland crags aren't very popular, as they all involve a 30-45min walk in, so you rarely see anyone else about.

Skipton is a good place to live, good train links to leeds, but driving adds a bit to get on the main roads North and South.

I love it, but then again, I was brought up on a farm, near a market town, so don't really know any different.

Paul B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 9626
  • Karma: +264/-4
I live in a village just inside the National Park, 5 mins from Kilnsey and 10mins to Malham. I mostly climb but I do a fair bit of fell running ...I love it, but then again, I was brought up on a farm, near a market town, so don't really know any different.

I had an 'enlightening' discussion with a (fairly drunk) farmer from (I believe) your village last night who decided that he'd ruin the Mrs. victory (half) pint by telling her that 'as the (rescue) dog hadn't bought anything (a pint I presume) and was using up valuable light and heat, she should be shot'...

turnipturned

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 715
  • Karma: +107/-1
 :icon_welcome: to North Yorkshire

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5776
  • Karma: +621/-36
Can't quite believe what I'm reading here.

"The sport climbing in England is of a sufficiently poor quality and reliability that it would be worth moving abroad, or else using up all your annual leave and disposable income, to get away from it."

 :???:

It's not that bad for goodness' sake.

And also, in this day and age recommending spending as much time as possible FLYING TO SPAIN for CLIMBING doesn't seem particularly environmentally responsible...

Travel nazi.

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29221
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
How was your recent climbing trip to the US Fultonius? Nice flight?

Fultonius

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4315
  • Karma: +138/-3
  • Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
    • Photos
How was your recent climbing trip to the US Fultonius? Nice flight?

It was, yes. Don't worry, my irony meter was pinging wildly while typing that.

On the plus side...I've just got my MSc in Offshore Renewable Energy...yin/yang...now all I need is a job...

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29221
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
Will keep an eye out if anything comes up here, although given my record of finding you jobs....

Fultonius

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4315
  • Karma: +138/-3
  • Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
    • Photos
Will keep an eye out if anything comes up here, although given my record of finding you jobs....

At least you got half your bonus! 

KeithScarlett

Offline
  • *
  • newbie
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +1/-0
First of, I really appreciate all the posts - they've been really useful in helping me think through the situation and consider other perspectives.

What sort of grade are you redpointing, Keith? Are we talking high 7s? Low 8s? High 8s?

I've redpointed 8a twice - different routes  ;)

Which I find disappointing in the context of what I believe I am capable of hence really wanting to do whatever it takes to put myself in a more enabling situation. I'd start with 8a+ and see where I got to...

Have you climbed much at Malham and Kilnsey Keith?

I couldn't imagine climbing on them consistently and that's it. The thing is with North Wales as you probably know if you ignore the Spanish style aspect you mentioned, is you can climb all the time; something will always be dry (even if it's only the Cave in winter). But in spring/summer/autumn the variety of rock types/angles/location and styles in my head far outweighs sieging something at Malham or Kilnsey, which aren't generally climbable all year and have their own problems.

Not that much, far less than I would have liked. I doubt very much however that I would (other factors being equal) tire of them because for me the possibility of being able to return again and again to the same venue (providing of course there is good climbing and an aesthetic appeal) is something I deeply value; it is this very process that allows progress.

And while I think the diversity of climbing in north Wales is outstanding (and I would relish coming back to climb if I did move away) it isn't diversity I seek, at least not in the way you describe.

It seems to me that others have a similar view on / reaction to what's here: 2 local climbers I climb with, both strong and talented (one has redpointed 8b+ and the other 8b, both capable of more), have expressed strong dissatisfaction and frustration with the situation, talking about finding training more rewarding because there at least you know it's possible to get into something (I'm paraphrasing here however I believe this is an accurate representation of their take). Pete, the area's guidebook author, made the decision to go elsewhere to redpoint. I believe Chris decided to stop trying The Brute due to conditions. He has also dedicated what I assume is a large amount of time to projects in both caves (Llanddulas and Parisella's) - how much does what I'm talking about play a part in that?

It's important, for me at least, to recognise that climbing does not exist in a vacuum i.e. even if the climbing here was closer to what I'm after I think there would be (important life) factors detracting from my ability to fully engage.

To me it sounds like you are thinking of moving to the Yorkshire dales or nearby. North Yorkshire to me means the North York Moors over towards the north-eastern dales.

I spend a few weeks in N Wales every year and wish I could do a lot more. I love the mountains, the coast, the variety. I really hope I can work out a way to live over there at some point.

To me it sounds like my knowledge of the area (geographical) could be more accurate! I don't know how far it is between places or even which part / area I'm talking about. Although having done some more work this week it seems that around Skipton would be a good starting point (infrastructure, proximity to climbing and commutability to urban areas i.e. Blackburn, Leeds, Harrogate and York all seem favourable).

Your comment on biking sounds similar to my experience here (the cycling is on busy main roads) which is something I'm keen to get away from.

I am certain I would miss the mountains - they are part of what brought me here - however, as I mention above, that has to sit within a more sustainable whole.

To answer the gaps. There is good walking around North Leeds. The meanwood valley trail is good for urban wilderness, both walking and mtb. There are trail centres maintained in stainburn above otley and better in esholt for enduro and DH. Most of the places in the guidebooks are surrounded by excellent walks and views. Footpaths seem to be well maintained yet suitably quiet. The wharf river offers excellent walks and wild swimming opportunities. There are kingfishers and otters plus the usual river life. And red kites.

I live in guiseley which is on the outskirts of Leeds on the other side of the chevin (the hill with Caley on it;6min drive). It's one 11 min train journey to Leeds, no stops. I can do all of the things on your list from my house and I'm really really happy about this. And there is a morrisons.

Excellent! I've seen (a glimpsed flash of blue I think) a kingfisher once and never seen an otter. I'm glad you have Morrisons :)

I can't remember when the Big K truly dried out this year, April perhaps? Accepting the North Buttress seeps rather easily I climbed at Kilnsey until I went to RRG mid October last year and it looks as if it'll be similar this year (although obviously your choices get cut down at the start and end of the season). Malham dries out earlier and wets out later. Likewise you can be strategic and eek out a few more weeks if you're smart. August seems to be a crap month regardless (warm and wet?). I went inside for the first time since Apr last Friday and really I probably should've gone to Longridge.

I'm unable to accept there are more climbable days annually at LPT and The Diamond than at Kilnsey and Malham - even setting aside conditions, large periods of time are unclimable due to tides and seasons / access restrictions. On that note how realistic / common is it to climb at Malham during the winter (November - February?)

Your point on walls is an important one - it looks like the nearest worthwhile wall to Skipton might be Harrogate which maybe seems OK (in terms of distance) in theory however the reality might be different. More research required.

How do you define 'nature'? As JB says, the wilds spaces are generally managed moorland, which isn't really 'natural' however if its getting away in a exposed environment, seeing nobody, with a good scenery, then North Yorkshire will defo give you that. I run a lot on the Barden fells, must have done over 150 miles on the moors this year and honestly since January I have only seen one other person.

I dont do a lot of MTB but its pretty good, lots of Bridleways for a good day out.

Bouldering and trad climbing is great on the moors, Crookrise is probably my favourite crag in the UK. A lot of the other bouldering is great, but they aren't really a 'nip up after work crag', however lots of those crags around Leeds. Again the majority of the moorland crags aren't very popular, as they all involve a 30-45min walk in, so you rarely see anyone else about.

Skipton is a good place to live, good train links to leeds, but driving adds a bit to get on the main roads North and South.

I love it, but then again, I was brought up on a farm, near a market town, so don't really know any different.

I think your definition of nature might be spot on. And your comments remind me how impressed I was at this when I saw it
http://www.bmcshop.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=6667 very inspiring (I know I'm talking about convenience limestone sport here but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be very motivated for what else the area has to offer).

My partner and I are heading up today or tomorrow with a view to having a look around. I'm fascinated to see how it feels, whether what I'm talking about seems realistic - I hope we'll climb, ideally routes however bouldering might feature.

There are alternatives to North Yorkshire (or whatever the name is for the area I have in mind), like The Peak District however for now I really want to see where the North Yorkshire 'path' takes me.

Will Hunt

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
The conversation here has been entirely Kilnsey and Malham turned. Just bear in mind that there is a lot of lime in your grade range of interest in Yorkshire, and a good deal of it is not at Malham or Kilnsey.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal