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Tommy's Top Training tips (Read 30558 times)

36chambers

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#25 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 25, 2016, 06:49:11 pm
Fair enough mate! My post was a bit brief and presumptive! your points are well made. Btw had a play on the Foundry lattice board today and its bloody ace. These boys have thought this shit thru!!!

Sorry to hijack this thread. But could someone explain why the lattice board is designed the way it is? (other than to give the brand its name)

Is the aim just to get you pumped?

nai

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#26 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 25, 2016, 07:00:21 pm
Tom's original board was made out of criss-crossing banister rails so I guess that's were it came from. There's a set way of going around it following numbered holds and you just keep going until failure.  I don't think I've ever been more pumped than I was on that board at my assessment.

tomtom

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#27 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 25, 2016, 07:20:45 pm
So it wasn't named after a pie then?

I feel robbed.

nai

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#28 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 25, 2016, 08:15:40 pm
Maybe it was, maybe I'm making 2+2=5?

Big question though, if the Lattice board was a pie, what flavour would it be?

tomtom

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#29 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 25, 2016, 08:47:18 pm
Maybe it was, maybe I'm making 2+2=5?

Big question though, if the Lattice board was a pie, what flavour would it be?

Nothing tastes as good as success...

mrjonathanr

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#30 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 25, 2016, 09:11:53 pm

Big question though, if the Lattice board was a pie, what flavour would it be?

Clear winner.

tim palmer

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#31 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 27, 2016, 01:54:43 pm
Big question though, if the Lattice board was a pie, what flavour would it be?
Sorry typo

SA Chris

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#32 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 29, 2016, 09:06:03 am

Big question though, if the Lattice board was a pie, what flavour would it be?

Pump-kin pie surely??

Tommy

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#33 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 29, 2016, 04:07:08 pm


Sorry to hijack this thread. But could someone explain why the lattice board is designed the way it is? (other than to give the brand its name)

Is the aim just to get you pumped?
[/quote]

I came up with the concept quite a few years back when I was coaching with the GB Team as essentially I was frustrated with not having a method for assessing whether training plans were effective or not. It seemed to be hard to eliminate the factors of confidence, technique, route reading, footwork, reach, style of holds etc. I did know of things like "foot-on campus" but I wanted something that was as close as possible to real climbing (hand and foot moves) but dealt with the above factors as described.

The Lattice Board was my best effort at trying to get these factors down to a minimal influence and therefore I could start a process of analysis of physical performance. All holds are all exactly the same size and because of the diagonal nature of the layout, it climbs quite naturally and is reasonably independent of reach (exceptions always possible!).

If you're near Sheffield or Loughborough, they've got a board you can try for the price of wall entry. I won't bang on it about it too much - just go and have a go and see what you think :-)



Mark Lloyd

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#34 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 29, 2016, 05:08:56 pm
Where in sheffield is the board Tom apart from your cellar ? and what exercises am I meant to do on it is there any benchmarks ?

nai

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#35 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 29, 2016, 06:09:35 pm
Where in sheffield is the board Tom apart from your cellar ? and what exercises am I meant to do on it is there any benchmarks ?
There's one at the foundry.

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tim palmer

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#36 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 03:21:17 am
At the risk of asking a stupid question, what is the point of a climbing wall having a lattice board?  I mean this sincerely, because as Tommy says it is an assessment tool (the merits of which are neither here nor there for my silly question), so are people supposed to train and periodically use it to assess their progress, which seems a pretty niche and expensive use of a climbing walls space
or is it suppose to transform into a training tool but surely all that will happen is that people will get good at doing the one movement involved in navigating this wooden board and not developing the range of skills that might be acquired by actually climbing?

kelvin

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#37 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 07:52:04 am
The one at Loughborough is at 10deg - I really don't get how you can compare that with the steeper ones, even with some fancy algorithm. I've read the explanation but it still makes no sense to me. It's meant to be geared for 6a+ climbers upwards and the temptation with it being in a climbing center, would be to hop on it every time you go, even if it was just for a warm down and get good at it. Which misses the point. The assessment report from the Lattice team is pretty thorough but you're not going to get that without paying for a session on it.

I got a little bit addicted to foot on campussing and got pretty good at it but it didn't help my climbing in the slightest. Just gave me blood blisters on my pinkies.

 :slap:

dave

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#38 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 08:15:20 am
At the risk of asking a stupid question, what is the point of a climbing wall having a lattice board?

Bandwagon effect?

shark

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#39 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 08:23:07 am
I think it will be a good for training AeroCap but suggest that any walls have a rota system on a blackboard or some sort of pool table etiquette to book (20 min?) slots for assessments and individuals during the evenings

nai

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#40 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 09:06:06 am
AeroCap?  You must be fit!

Good call on the blackboard/timeslots though.  Be very hard for more than one person to work out on it at a time without one or both being frustrated.

At the risk of asking a stupid question, what is the point of a climbing wall having a lattice board?

Just another tool like having a campus board.  If you want to blow your forearms to bits it's an effective way without the need for a partner.  Perfect for the Foundry where the circuits are a bit sub standard (and hard).


shark

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#41 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 09:32:44 am
AeroCap?  You must be fit!

Thought it would be perfect for 2o/10s

Maybe not.

Good call on the blackboard/timeslots though.  Be very hard for more than one person to work out on it at a time without one or both being frustrated.

Winner stays on.

nai

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#42 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 09:41:49 am
AeroCap?  You must be fit!

Thought it would be perfect for 2o/10s

Maybe not.

Good call on the blackboard/timeslots though.  Be very hard for more than one person to work out on it at a time without one or both being frustrated.

Winner stays on.
True HI possible, not 10 minute laps though
AeroCap?  You must be fit!

Thought it would be perfect for 2o/10s

Maybe not.

Good call on the blackboard/timeslots though.  Be very hard for more than one person to work out on it at a time without one or both being frustrated.

Winner stays on.
True

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tomtom

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#43 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 10:59:16 am
At the risk of asking a stupid question, what is the point of a climbing wall having a lattice board?

Bandwagon effect?

Wagonwheel factor?

tim palmer

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#44 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 11:42:46 am
I think the major thing that the l'board and the campus board share are the fact 99% of people would be better off using the climbing wall rather than the training tool.  Plus I think the campus board really just gets you good on a campus board after a point and I think that will be much more marked with this contraption.

Also is Tommy not introducing a massive confounded into his amassed training data (again the quality of which is not relevant to the question) because now he is going to have people how are actually training on his assessment tool and will have massive abilities on it, far more than people who can climb well.

Paul B

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#45 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 30, 2016, 12:47:35 pm
So your concern is Random Climber A will associate a lattice score of 100 (as an example) and link that with being able to achieve a set grade whilst not taking account of all of the other things required to be a good climber?

Much like I (and others) did watching Ben and Jerry climb on steep boards, ignoring their history?

tim palmer

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#46 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 31, 2016, 11:53:48 am
I am not sure I would phrase it like that but I suppose I can't understand the logic in making it available in climbing walls (other than making money), I am not being wilfully obtuse, my initial question: is this an assessment thing or a training thing is sincere because….

it is designed as an assessment tool as it fairly basic and non height dependent and reasonably technique-less, ok sort of makes sense, it creates a fairly even playing field for people the first couple of times they use it.
 
But once it becomes a training tool/available on demand which some can access regularly you can learn how to do it more efficiently (just as people get good at campus boarding (even thought it is fair more basic than using the l'board) without getting any stronger) and you learn the tricks. 

So, it loses it's use a tool for assessment/comparison as you have some people with access to it so learn it and others who do not (or don't see the point in it) won't but may train just as hard but won't score as high on the l'board so comparison is invalid and any data gathered before people could practice becomes meaningless.
 
I think as a training tool it will be fairly limited because, as the creator says, it is just one move so (in my opinion) you don't get the variety which is required to climb well and as you get good at the move the efficacy of it as a training tool will plummet. 

Ok if you have unlimited time it might be useful to supplement other training (but this still scuppers it's use as an assessment tool) but most people are time limited and I can't see this being method being superior than lapping boulder problems or climbing a lot of routes.

Three Nine

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#47 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 31, 2016, 12:20:05 pm
I think Tommy trains on his.

One significant advantage over a circuit boards would be skin. For me this is a real problem training aerobically - my skin just can't take the volume.

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#48 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 31, 2016, 12:20:38 pm
I think these are good points. Raises the thought of what a tool would look like, that took a truly objective measure of climbing-specific 'energy systems'. Some sort of small force measurement device that could be strapped to fingers to measure repeated contractile strength on a fixed on/off repetition against a predetermined percentage of client's body-weight over time, at, say, 4 different joint angles. Able to be used sitting down with no other involvement of the arms/body, to eliminate 'technique' noise.

Combined with resting heart rate, VO2 max, other general CV parameters.

Get to it boffins.

nai

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#49 Re: Tommy's Top Training tips
August 31, 2016, 12:42:00 pm
I think Tommy trains on his.

At my assessment Ollie told me Tommy on his original board which is a bit steeper than the ones in walls, 35ish degrees at a guess.


One significant advantage over a circuit boards would be skin. For me this is a real problem training aerobically - my skin just can't take the volume.

Yep really skin friendly and non cruxy, I don't see what the problem is.  Every circuit I've ever tried has a move that becomes my failure point on 8/10 reps (yes even If I start in a different place). This will hopefully eliminate that issue.

You're not using it to learn to climb well, you're using it to get pumped and for that it's perfect*, an advanced form of foot on campussing.

*Obviously use in moderation at certain points of a training cycle and with a greater volume of other training completed doing actual rock climbing.

 

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