[rlovatt]

I have recently been trying the beastmaker workouts using the app. I have two questions:

-The workouts seem particularly long, if you were training any other body part in the gym to make strength gains in gym, the workout would be short and heavy. Are the workouts designed to target forearm/finger endurance as well? Would following the workouts result in big gains in endurance?

-I can already hang one hand from the three finger top three finger pockets and middle two and front two on the deep pockets. However this doesn't really translate to climbing harder. I am still not really bouldering harder than Font 7a, and no my technique isn't that terrible If I was to look at getting a professional to analyse my weaknesses, does anybody have recommendations based in Sheffied.

Any advice would be much appreciated.   

[thekettle]

For a thorough assessment of the physical side of climbing, I'd recommend seeing Tom Randall of Lattice Training.
However on the face of it your fingers sound pretty strong for a font 7a climber, so it may be there is another less obvious weakness that is limiting your performance 

[Omar15]

I would highly recommend Tom, Ollie and Remus at Lattice training. They can measure your finger, body and arm strengths objectively against norms for your grade, and then provide a detailed plan to address your weaknesses specifically.

Eg for me, my max finger strength was ok but ability to maintain it over a boulder was poor. So I'm clear now on how to rectify that. I only wish I had contacted them sooner! Maybe I would have avoided a 4 year plateau...

[mctrials23]

So you can one arm hang the deep pockets on two fingers?

I can one arm the three finger pockets at the top because it seems to encourage a bit of a camming effect due to the size.

Can you one arm half crimp any of the larger slots on the BM as I find that much harder than 3 finger dragging the top ones.

If you can hang either 3 finger open on the large holds or 2 fingers (one arm) on any of them then I reckon you should be able to climb harder than 7a.

[Fultonius]

If you can hang either 3 finger open on the large holds or 2 fingers (one arm) on any of them then I reckon you should be able to climb harder than 7a.

No shit    I've done 7B+ and I can't one arm hang any of them!

[Fultonius]

I am still not really bouldering harder than Font 7a, and no my technique isn't that terrible
Any advice would be much appreciated.

I think you might find that this is not true.

[rlovatt]

Gents,

Thanks for the input and the recommendations.

Omar: You say you are clear on what to rectify. Out of interest, what do you need to rectify?

I have the 1000 series, mainly as I wanted to be able to do pull ups on jugs for overall back strength. I can hang all the larger slots with one hand dragging and crimp. However the shallower slots and crimps seem impossible for now.

I did drop 4KG from 74KG back to 70KG after Christmas which definitely helped.

[tomtom]

However the shallower slots and crimps seem impossible for now.

This is probably the issue... learn to use the crimps (bottom row end on 1000) by having one hand in the big slot and the other in the crimp etc...

[rlovatt]

Fultonious: Like I say my technique isn't terrible but I could do with some improvement. I think what I struggle with is putting it all together. I have identified two areas I suck at which include heel hooks and my endurance is pretty crap, hence why I think some evaluation of my climbing might help.

Has anyone any feedback on the endurance aspect of the beastmaker workouts, and why they are so long?

[rlovatt]

TomTom:

When I say they seem impossible I'm talking one handed. I have no issues hanging them back three on both hands even on the smallest crimps.

[Dexter]

Sounds to me like you have pretty strong fingers for the beastmaker, and maybe would benefit from doing some board climbing instead. Out of curiosity how are you one arm hanging the hold? Straight arm, 90 degrees locked or something else?

[rlovatt]

Dexter,

I hang with a slight bend to avoid shoulder injury. However it's harder to maintain on one arm

[BicepsMou]

Has anyone any feedback on the endurance aspect of the beastmaker workouts, and why they are so long?

This goes into the wider topic of repeaters vs. max strength protocols.
Widely discussed on here already so search might help!

Hints:
* Yes, the repeaters-style protocol of the BM is at the border btw pure strength and endurance (take into account the wide continuum, of ‘endurance’)
* In terms of the terminology popular on UKB, you could consider repeaters as going into the direction of AnCap finger training (as the typical rep load is around 40’’), which is known to have good carry-overs to strength;

And as many others have stated above: Finger strength does definitely not seem to be the main topic that’s holding you back!

As technique evaluation is something that is almost impossible to be done by oneself, you are spot on with your plans to book a coach to have a deeper look. My reco would be to have this evaluation done primarily from the movement / technical side and less from the physical aspect!

Based on comments on the net, DaveMc seems to do this type of coaching (although not really Sheffield area:-)
Sheffield locals will probably be able to name other good options.

[tim palmer]

Out of curiosity, what are you like on the crimps?
I might have misunderstood but it seems like you are good hanging big pockets (which is useful in Rodellar but not in the UK)

[mctrials23]

How much weight can you add and still half crimp the small crimps for ~10s?

[rlovatt]

Tim,

I'm pretty good on crimps. I had no problems doing a few pull ups on the tiny edges on the moon hang board. I would think it's always going to be harder to one hand hangs on crimps rather than slots.

MCtrials,

I will give that a bash this evening and let you know

Biceps:

That's some great advice. I will certainly look at getting some evaluation of my technique.

 

[Dexter]

Dexter,

I hang with a slight bend to avoid shoulder injury. However it's harder to maintain on one arm

This is interesting to me as I have always found that I cannot hang anything on the beastmaker unless I'm at 90 degree lock. If I try to straight arm I just come straight off.
The reason I say this is interesting is that I would say I'm the complete oposite in the sense that I'm relatively weak on the BM (basically I can just about one arm hang the same 3 finger pockets for ~7s) compared to my actual climbing. I wonder if there is something to do with the static loading invloved in fingerboarding vs the dynamic pulling involved in climbing? Anyone with more knowledge?

[tim palmer]

Tim,

I'm pretty good on crimps. I had no problems doing a few pull ups on the tiny edges on the moon hang board. I would think it's always going to be harder to one hand hangs on crimps rather than slots.

Well I think that might me something to try then, one arm hang edges. 
To be honest though, if you are strong on crimps and pockets, open handed, crimped, your technique is good, you either must just need experience climbing outdoors more to get into trying harder problems (or there is something you aren't telling us......).
If you want to pay someone for the benefit of their experience, fill your boots but I can't see the point in missing out on the fun of learning for yourself and in the long run it might be better to do so.

[rlovatt]

Tim,

The only thing I haven't told you yet. Is I tend to give up on problems if I don't them relatively quickly, I also don't climb half as much as I would like to due to the fact I have a young family and I am approaching 40 fast, hence not bothered about on missing out on the fun by learning by mistakes   I also don't really climb outside much due to family/work commitments and I don't think gritstone bouldering is all it's cracked up to be!

[tim palmer]

yeah I think gritstone bouldering is really frustrating, so tricky, have you tried much on limestone, especially if you are strong open handed? 

I am in a similar situation (except a couple of years younger) and I am not sure there is any substitute for climbing outdoors, where are you based?

[tomtom]

To contrast - I can hang none of the smaller holds on the BM1k with one hand and the crimps all feel quite hard two handed - and can't even complete one of the BM warm up routines on their app. But can boulder 7B...

[rjtrials]

If you can hang either 3 finger open on the large holds or 2 fingers (one arm) on any of them then I reckon you should be able to climb harder than 7a.

No shit    I've done 7B+ and I can't one arm hang any of them!

I've climbed 7c+/8a and can barely one arm hang a bar.  It amazes me the level of finger strength so prevelant on the climbing forums!

[moose]

I've climbed 7c+/8a and can barely one arm hang a bar.  It amazes me the level of finger strength so prevalent on the climbing forums!

Same here.  I can barely one-arm hang a bar, certainly not an edge but have scraped my way up routes up to 8a+ (including a few fingery ones), and whilst I am not the boulder I was, I suspect I could get up a few font7b+s.   I guess it shows the benefit of having the opportunity and access to make up for a lack of talent with a willingness to siege.

[moose]

I've climbed 7c+/8a and can barely one arm hang a bar.  It amazes me the level of finger strength so prevalent on the climbing forums!

Same here.  I can barely one-arm hang a bar, certainly not an edge, but have scraped my way up routes up to 8a+ (including a few fingery ones), and whilst I am not the boulderer I was, I suspect I could get up a few font7b+s.   I guess it shows the benefit of having the opportunity and access to make up for a lack of talent with a willingness to siege.

[rlovatt]

MC trials. I managed 7.5KG on the small crimps and 20kg on the bottom crimps.

I am in Sheffield. I think gritstone is knacky and conditions dependent and there isn't that much of that compared to font. I really don't have time to get out and climb outdoors these days. I am also happy enough just to climb indoors as means of keeping in some kind of shape! However like anything it's hard to keep the motivation up if you aren't progressing  hence my original post.

Another issue is I think a lot of the indoor problems are based around large features and dynamic moves. There seems to be less and less crimpy problems around these days. I can usually get 90% of the wasps at the works, but the murples I can only ever get a few.

I am going to get a professional to assess my climbing. However I feel that probably the two main things holding me back are lack of time to get to the wall and my endurance isn't great.

[Simon W]

If you climb at the works have you considered doing a training plan with one of the coaches there? Did one with Dave Mason a couple of years ago which helped me push my grade. Tom, Lucinda and Sam also all come highly recommended.

[Simon W]

For the sake of comparison, I'm also pushing 40 with a young family and nowhere near as strong as you on a BM but boulder in the mid 7s and manage most murples and some blues. How long have you been climbing?

[tim palmer]

I am in Sheffield. I think gritstone is knacky and conditions dependent and there isn't that much of that compared to font.

I said the same thing about bishop, hueco and cresciano, nowhere is as good as font.  You tried the limestone, it is basic!

[Nibile]

To the OP, I think that the only way to climb harder is to become stronger. Stick to the BM and don't listen to these guys telling you to refine your skills, they're just jealous hypocrites.

[Doylo]

 I guess it shows the benefit of having the opportunity and access to make up for a lack of talent with a willingness to siege.

You just described me.

[jwi]

To the OP, I think that the only way to climb harder is to become stronger. Stick to the BM and don't listen to these guys telling you to refine your skills, they're just jealous hypocrites.

(skip to 4.00)

So there are two options: you have to get stronger ... no, actually, that's the only option 

[Nibile]

Congratulations Tim!
When I posted I wasn't sure that someone would have taken me seriously, but hey, you surprised me!

[Nibile]

Tim, I'm still joking. Take it easy man.

[tim palmer]

None taken, 

I think the works isn't a great training wall, I didn't feel I got much out of it strength-wise when i lived in Sheffield, i think the foundry is much better

[rlovatt]

Simon W:  I have been climbing on and off for twenty years. The majority of my outdoor climbing has been trad and the odd sports and bouldering trip abroad.

When I lived in London I was definitely climbing harder but was going to mile end 2-3 times a week. I am impressed with you managing most of the murples. I have managed the odd blue that's crimpy.

[Simon W]

Similar to me in terms of years climbing too, I've always just bouldered though. Sounds like you have very strong fingers! Can you pull through these holds on the BM or is it all static hangs? The coaching sessions I had at the works were very helpful for identifying my weaknesses. Think this is quite hard to do yourself for some people, certainly was for me. I'm finding the new steep board at the works good for training. I'm sure that would help build strength in your arms, shoulders, back and core if this is where your weaknesses lie.

Hopefully catch you down there at some point!

[rlovatt]

Hi Simon,

I spent a lot of time on the 45 at mile. Maybe I should have a crack at the one at the works.

I might well see you down as I signed up for a year after Christmas.  However I have not been for two months after a disappointing trip to Sardinia in terms of climbing, just proving what a defeatist I am

[rlovatt]

Simon W, No problems either pulling through either on all two handed holds.

[mctrials23]

So it turns out climbing is a load of bollocks and finger strength is largely unrelated to grades. I was hanging the small crimps on the beastmaker the other day for 10s with 40kg added and I can only boulder about 7a/b. FML

[Simon W]

I'm normally down there 2/3 times a week so come over and say hello if you're around, I'm usually climbing with my wife who's Japanese and my 8 month old who looks like a Japanese version of me so should be easy to spot!

[Omar15]

Gents,

Thanks for the input and the recommendations.

Omar: You say you are clear on what to rectify. Out of interest, what do you need to rectify?

Hey, just saw this. So for me I usually fail to complete problems because I'm terrible at linking moves I find hard together. The exercises they've given me therefore have this as their focus - so that my drop off from maximum has less of a steep decline.

[rlovatt]

Simon W: I will certainly say hello if I see you.

Omar: that makes sense. thanks for the reply